Fandom Unpacked
Fandom has long been the heartbeat of in-person sports, music, and entertainment experiences, with modern fans organizing and sharing their love (or despair) across hundreds of different platforms. Fandom Unpacked is a 30-minute ask-me-anything style series where we aim to understand the power of modern fandom by engaging with some of the brightest minds in sports and entertainment. We pose a series of questions to our guests to gain insight into the shape of fandom in their industry, inviting our audience to join in on the fun by participating in our bi-monthly livestreams. Register at https://situationlive.com/fan.
Fandom Unpacked
Beyond Arias: What Makes Opera Devotees Some of Entertainment's Most Dedicated Fans?
The passionate world of opera fandom might surprise you. Forget polite, hushed appreciation – opera enthusiasts are more like sports fans than theater patrons, tracking their favorite performers across venues, possessing encyclopedic knowledge of past productions, and vocally expressing their approval (or disappointment) during performances.
Joining us for this fascinating exploration are voices from LA Opera and Situation, who reveal how modern opera companies balance centuries of tradition with fresh approaches to welcome new audiences. From $16 tickets to hilarious social media campaigns demystifying opera conventions, LA Opera has positioned itself as an innovator in making this powerful art form accessible without compromising artistic integrity.
"Sometimes the best thing to do is just let opera be opera," explains Eric Bornemann, highlighting how the fundamental power of the art form has sustained it for over 400 years. Yet the company isn't afraid to embrace humor and contemporary culture on platforms like TikTok, where both traditional performance clips and creative, meme-inspired content find enthusiastic audiences.
We also explore how opera extends beyond traditional venues through innovative programming, free outdoor broadcasts, and vital educational initiatives that introduce younger generations to this enduring art form. Whether you're a lifelong opera devotee or opera-curious, this episode offers fascinating insights into one of entertainment's most passionate fan communities.
Recorded Thursday, January 23rd, 2025
Hosts: Meghan Goria, Account Group Director for Arts & Culture, Situation & Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation
Guests: Melanie Broussalian, Associate Director of Communications, and Eric Bornemann, Senior Director of Marketing of LA Opera
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast, an audio version of our regular livestream series where we unpack modern fandom with some of the brightest minds in sports and entertainment. I'm producer Peter Jajic and in today's episode we're talking about opera fandom with a supersized cast of voices From Situation, we have CEO Damian Bazadana and account group director for arts and culture, Megan Goria, and from LA Opera, we have CEO Damian Bazzadana and Account Group Director for Arts and Culture, Megan Goria. And from LA Opera, we have Melanie Vrsalian, Associate Director of Communications, and Eric Bornemann, Senior Director of Marketing. Curtain up everybody, Break a leg.
Megan Goria:Thank you so much, peter, and welcome everybody. I am so excited to be here and get the chance to talk about opera. I have to say I am a lifelong fan of the art form. My very first subscription that I ever had was a student subscription to the LA Opera. So this is a full circle moment for me to be talking to the team here and I would love to just kind of going off of that here from both of you how you first came to opera, how you became a fan, and we'll take it from there.
Eric Bornemann:Sure. So I grew up in a town in upstate New York called Saratoga Springs, where we were lucky enough to have it was the summer home of the New York City Ballet, philadelphia Orchestra and, for a period of time, new York City Opera. So I grew up going to see everything that they had there, because my parents were way into it and I grew up on the lawn there watching it. So I think it was my first day at Situation. John and Damien came to me and were like we just signed a new client at the Met Opera. Do you know anything about opera? And I said, well, I sort of know the rep because I saw these things as a kid, but I haven't been in years and they're like, well, that's more than more than we know at this time.
Eric Bornemann:So, go ahead, your counts, yours Uh, so that's. So. That was really my uh, my start jumping off point with the Met Um, and it was funny, megan uh was at the Met at that time, uh, and was, um, you know the the uh she was, she was the client for situation, so uh it. So it's been very fun to watch our paths sort of cross and come back and forth over these years. So yeah, but I've been here with LA Opera for 10 years and love the company and love the way that we do operas and how we put a sort of unique spin to LA on it.
Melanie Broussalian:Love it For me. I actually have a background in classical music. I played piano since I was seven and then played flute all through high school and college, but really focused more on the symphonic, orchestral side of things. But my grandparents were really big opera fans and my great-grandmother was a subscriber to the San Francisco Opera, so I had kind of a language for it. But it wasn't until I actually started working at LA Opera that I actually really fell in love with the art form, because I think there's no better way to see it than from kind of my vantage point, which agency and investment into what's going on and making all of your fellow colleagues shine as bright as everybody else sees them.
Megan Goria:Fantastic. I think let's talk a little bit about opera fans. You know we often hear about opera and classical music fans kind of in the same breath as theater fans. But to my mind they're almost more like sports fans, right, like they have their favorite players. They travel to see the big games. You know, they know their history, they know their stats, they come to everything with, you know, with lots of information. They're almost more like baseball people than musical theater people. So I'm curious how you all think of opera fans kind of fitting into the pantheon of fandom.
Melanie Broussalian:Yeah, I would say that they definitely are some of the most dedicated fans that I have ever seen and that's coming from someone who was in the One Direction fandom for years.
Melanie Broussalian:And, like opera fans are super rowdy and super, which is, I think, something that not a lot of people realize, and they're very vocal about whether they love something and whether they don't love something.
Melanie Broussalian:So that almost kind of makes our jobs. It's like a double-edged sword. It makes our jobs easier in some respects because it you know, we love having a fan base that you know really loves the opera and loves coming out for it and then also like making sure that they feel heard and making sure that they feel like they're a part of our community and that you know we're working together with them. But I think it's been really fun over the past couple years to really get into social media and get really get really kind of revamp LA Opera's presence and what it means to be an opera company on social media in like in our current day and age, and really push the boundaries on. You know what opera fandom is and who can be an opera fan, and so that's been really fun to kind of see our audiences expand and kind of take them along for this ride with us.
Eric Bornemann:Yeah, I mean, I'll just add, you know we do have a lot of subscriber events and we, you know we'll talk to our subscribers and you know we're coming up on our 40th season next year, um, which is very young for an opera company, um, uh, but uh, you know people feel very invested in the company and you know someone will come and start talking to me about you know they'll say, oh, you're doing x next next season. I saw that blah, blah and they, they can rattle off everything. Like it was yesterday and it was from 1991, like there is, there is just a complete, like the, the opera, when you know we, we always say it's it. You know it's greater than the sum of its arts because it's, you know, the best of music, the best of theater, the best of design, the best of dance, sometimes everything put together.
Eric Bornemann:So when, when, when, everything is firing all cylinders and it all clicks, it is that really transformative, uh art form that you really can't get elsewhere. And people, when, they, when, when they live in, when they live and breathe, that it is, it is amazing. Some of they want to, they, they become uh, evangelists for you in that way. So a lot of what we that evangelism and make these people want to help us convert further people into opera because, as we know, opera is, opera has some challenges that come with it yeah, I mean, I like to think of myself as as one of those evangelizers and and you know a little bit of a reformed opera snob.
Megan Goria:I like to say that you know I actually I take a very serious responsibility when I bring someone to the opera for the first time. You know you want them. You know you want them to feel welcome, you want them to feel like they don't have to know the secret code and all of the terminology. But you know, how do we kind of do that on a larger scale? How do we make it feel a little bit more welcome to the folks who might not know the language, might not know what to wear, those types of slightly intimidating questions when you're a first timer um, yeah, I mean we do.
Eric Bornemann:We do a lot of things. I mean we have like from, uh, you know, fairly robust. You know simple things like faqs on the website that you know it's like what do you, what do you know? The one question we get off, often asked a lot is like what do I wear? And we always say, you know, it's like we just wear and come in whatever you want to want to come in. You know, wear jeans. Jeans are fine, that's the thing it's always. Jeans are fun. Um, and the funny thing is that you know a lot of people that you know, when we're talking with people one-on-one in that regard, they're like like, oh, I, I kind of hoped I would have to like dress up. Like it's kind of, especially, um, in la, even though we have, you know, lots of movie premieres in the oscars and things like that. Um, it's there's not a ton of opportunities all the time for people to get really glammed up when they go out. So it's kind of become a thing where people come into.
Eric Bornemann:We perform at the Chandler Pavilion, where the Oscars used to be before they moved to the Kodak, and it's this gorgeous mid-century modern building with all these chandeliers and mirrors and lights and everything. It is like made for selfies. So people, when they come here, they want to come out and really show their experience. Um, we have, you know, a red. We have a red carpet. Step and repeat out here and people will be on there 30 minutes after the performance is done. Um, uh, you know, waiting to get in on queuing and queuing in a line to take their photo. Um, it's really, you know, people really want to be seen and show that they were here and that's something that we try to find different ways to really entice them to do that, whether it be through content in you know, all of our email communication to them, whether they're ticket holders or stuff that we do with them and try and engage with them when they're on site here.
Melanie Broussalian:Yeah, and I'll also say that I think we are very cognizant about trying to dispel, you know, preconceived notions about what opera is and who it's for. So, just for example, this year we launched a social media campaign called Things to Know About LAO. That really breaks down like very specific areas of the opera that we find kind of like humdrum and ordinary and kind of like we take for granted. But realizing that you know, if you're a first timer, you may not know what that box is on stage and like, why is there a box're a first timer, you may not know what that box is on stage and like, why is there a box on stage? Well, there's somebody in it who's giving cues, and like their role is super important.
Melanie Broussalian:Or the one thing that I hear all the time is well, it's like in Italian or German or French, it's not in English.
Melanie Broussalian:I'm like there's some, we have subtitles, we have super titles and they're like oh well, I didn't know that. So we like did a video about, you know, making sure that people know that there are translations and that you don't have to speak Italian to enjoy the opera. And then we also I think we're really focusing on reaching audience members where they are. So for the social media portion, that's really geared towards kind of our younger audiences. But then we have like pre-show talks that our conductor, james Conlon, does and that's kind of like for maybe the older fan base or, you know, the more subscribers that are kind of here and they want more of the inside baseball, look at kind of what the opera is. But I mean, it's all for everyone, for everyone. But I think it's also important that we meet people where they are and based on kind of like their entry points, so that we can all bring them together and they can all like reach this common, you know, experience of sitting down and watching something really beautiful play on a stage.
Megan Goria:Yeah, I think that's so important to walk that line of you don't actually need to know anything before you come into the opera house, but the more you know, the more you can appreciate. So you know having those resources available but not feeling like you have to study or you have to. You know, brush up on your French before you walk into the opera house. Peter, I think we have a question from the audience.
Peter Yagecic:We do. We have a couple of questions coming in, so I'm just going to take them in the order in which this one came. Thank you for this. First of all, what social media platforms are the most important to opera fandom? I'm sure we could spend a whole hour on that, but anyone who wants to take that. Megan, I know you coined a term that I had heard for the first time when we were chatting a couple days ago. I'm hoping you'll use that now.
Megan Goria:Oh opera talk.
Peter Yagecic:Yes.
Megan Goria:Yes, yeah, opera Talk, yes, yes, yeah. I mean, melanie, I know you can talk to this a lot, but I think there's been just a huge community-building moment around TikTok, with a lot of opera singers in particular and other folks who are associated with opera really building community and giving folks that kind of real inside look into what it takes to be an opera singer, how they train their bodies like athletes and the mechanics of singing. But yeah, I would love to know from your perspective what are the other important platforms?
Melanie Broussalian:Yeah, I would say you're looking at like demographics and who's using your platforms is really really important there, and I would say that's pretty true to the engagement that we get on our platform. So, like Facebook is really important for us because a lot of our, you know, subscribers, long-term patrons and kind of our older donor base is really on Facebook and then we're really trying to engage younger audiences on Instagram and on TikTok around you know, things that are a little more silly and that are a little more approachable. So, kind of towing the line between those two, making sure that our audience feels seen across the board, is really important. Great in terms of just making sure that we, you know if there's long form things that we want to share, that that's kind of a place where everyone goes. So, yeah, I would say, like Facebook, instagram and TikTok are all kind of equally important in terms of reaching the folks that we want to reach from all the different demographics of ticket buyers that we have.
Eric Bornemann:I would just add something I think is fascinating. So Melanie does a really incredible job of creating really engaging, really fun, really witty, really smart content for all of our social media channels. But I think the thing that and this is not a demerit on anything that she's created, but I think and please hold me to the truth if this is not correct but I think the thing that got the most views of our um stuff on tiktok was just a performance clip from turandot. Yep is one of the things that it always sticks my mind is that you know the, the pure nature of what the art form is and the way that that feels, especially when you have something you know as as recognizable as nessendorma. But people, people respond to that and you know, sometimes we spend a lot of time trying to think how do we make Opera accessible, how do we find a way to sell Opera or put a little spin on it, and sometimes the best thing to do is to just let Opera be Opera, which is kind of funny.
Megan Goria:Yeah, you got to trust the product. It's been around for 400 plus years for a reason we want to make sure that we're never forgetting the ultimate reason why we're all here, which is the greatness of the art form. Peter, was there another question that came in?
Peter Yagecic:backstage tour at another opera. Uh, but the question was how much do? Your companies invite fans to get behind the scenes in quotes. Um, oh, and then there was a sub question to that. Can you tell us more about the quiz thing, megan? Um, I, you know. If she lets us in a post-show email, I'll send the link to the recording of her own, but that that's a big if, but, but in terms of behind the scenes, uh, would love to to have our audience learn a little bit more about that sure.
Eric Bornemann:So one of the things that we've done recently, in the last uh in the last uh two years, is we've changed our subscription model a bit, um, and we've made something what's called subscribe and save, which is an automatic renewal subscription so that people uh save more money if they uh, essentially are signing up in perpetuity, kind of like Amazon subscribe and save, but for Opera, not for toilet paper.
Eric Bornemann:So we have done that and with that we've increased a bunch of perks. So things like we'll have a day where we do behind-the-scenes tours we have for some people they get to have an exclusive one-on-one chat with Mike Tricollin and Christopher Kelch, our CEO. So we leverage behind-the-scenes access and things like that for subscribers who are part of the Subscribing Safe thing in a way that traditionally might be done more on a donor level. You know traditionally might be done more on a donor level. There's still other perks and things like that for donors, but we're moving more into trying to make that, you know, to re-engage subscribers and to give them more reasons to maintain their subscription season after season, especially in the post-COVID world.
Peter Yagecic:I had a bit of a tack-on to that that I just genuinely don't know the answer to. But another question in our last episode of Fandom Unpacked we talked to the producer of BroadwayCon and the question was is there a fan convention for opera? And if there isn't, should there be?
Megan Goria:Let's make one, let's do it right. I don't think there is.
Peter Yagecic:We've got Melissa on speed dial at Mischief, we can make one happen.
Eric Bornemann:There's the Opera America conference, but that's all for everyone. Working kind of behind the scenes and a very, very different look and feel than a fan con, yeah.
Megan Goria:I will say you know, there are people who dress up in costume to go to the opera. You know, I think we're not that far off from establishing some sort of convention. So I think we're on to something. Let's make it happen.
Eric Bornemann:Yeah, I mean whenever you do the ring cycle you get the ring heads who show up with the helmets, and we do see people dress up like that in LA for other things too, Like when we did Frida and Diego last year, we had people dressing up like Frida Kahlo and Diego Rivera coming in. We sort of encouraged that.
Peter Yagecic:And it creates just a real fun atmosphere and brings people in different ways. Live entertainment that champions the power of unforgettable shared experiences around the world. We offer full marketing and creative services for experience-based brands in live entertainment, attractions, theater, sports, arts and culture, and more. Check us out at SituationInteractivecom. Now back to our Q&A.
Megan Goria:Let's talk a little bit about some of the the different tactics that we're seeing across the country with with opera companies to really kind of modernize opera and bring in new audiences. We've talked a little bit about some of them, but we're seeing, you know, very creative pricing options as new productions, more contemporary programming, live streaming, diversifying audiences and and singers, and you know know there's all sorts of different tactics. But I'm just curious, from your perspective, what you think is the most important or impactful tactic that an opera company can take to kind of open their doors?
Eric Bornemann:Sure, I mean, I think it kind of goes back a little bit to what you were saying about being authentic and being truthful. You know we spend a lot of time addressing the points of opera that have been problematic in the past. It has been seen as being elitist or expensive. So we always try and claw out the fact that we have tickets starting around $16 and really highlight that. If something starts selling and we have dynamic pricing, people start complaining on social media about or start hopping on our ads and saying, oh gee, all our tickets are so expensive, we will truthfully jump in and say we have a whole response about tickets may be expensive. Now If you go early you can get access to these tickets. We try and keep things as cheap as possible. You know that we're a nonprofit.
Eric Bornemann:Lots of people think that we're not a nonprofit.
Eric Bornemann:That's one of the things that's the always trying to sort of dispel there. The other thing is we did this about two or three years ago but we had a whole panel discussion during the pandemic about the history of racism in opera and how performers and audiences have not necessarily been welcome into these spaces for many, many years and um, you know that was an important thing to, to, to, to have out there, be, you know, and talk about that and not, you know, not hide behind the fact, like, oh well, you know we've done this opera and we have, you know, this conductor, but like, really like, talk about it. And if we can't, you know, measure up to the what, the things that we're saying, let's have a conversation about that and be honest and open about it. I think we need to do that, we all need to do that as institutions, otherwise it, you know, it's, it's some degree of gaslighting, so, um, that's things that have felt very sort of, you know, and not getting over our skis in places where we shouldn't.
Melanie Broussalian:Yeah, and I'd also say, on the other end of that, we also, I think, as an opera company, especially in comparison to a lot of the more established opera companies, I think our age is really helpful in this, in that we're a little younger but we don't take ourselves as seriously as I think a lot of other opera companies do, and I think that shows in our content and the ways that we interact companies do, and I think that shows in our content and the ways that we interact with folks, and I think that also makes us more approachable and that, you know, it's not surprising to see something funny from LA Opera, because it's, you know, something that we've been working on and something that we've been working towards, and I think people are really open to that and they I think it's helpful for audiences, especially new audiences and folks that are curious about opera, to know that it's not. You know we're not sitting behind our computers in a high tower like with our noses turned up. You know we're really like we are one of them. I am as just chronically online as anybody else that's also looking at Instagram or TikTok, and so when I see trends, I think you know what is something like.
Melanie Broussalian:How can LA Opera enter this conversation with our unique POV? And when it works, it really, really works. And so I think, you know, just not being afraid to take a little more risks and be just a little more out there and a little more zany, I think is something that we've really taken the reins on and I think are starting to see other American opera companies kind of follow in suit, realizing that there is an audience for like the sillier stuff, while also maintaining, you know, the world-class kind of heritage of our brand and of our company. But you know the world-class kind of heritage of our brand and of our company but you know, making sure that there's room for both.
Megan Goria:I have to say, the LA Opera meme game is outstanding. Just a second if you're not following them on the various social channels, you definitely should. Damian, I think you had a question.
Damian Bazadona:Yeah, I mean we interview on this webinar. We've interviewed a significant number of brands Formula One, the NBA, broadwaycon and I find the question I have is where can we see the ultimate of opera fandom on display? And what I mean by that is like. So F1 is like if you get close to to the track you could smell the rubber and it's so loud, but it's like amazing. If you talk about broadway con, it's like when you go in they first connect with people, or in broadway it's the 11 o'clock number or you know, think of all the different things. Where, how would you describe with opera? Like where, if you want to see pure fandom at its purest and you feel the electricity of this love for this art form, how would you describe that? Where I just love to put some color on that, like just to, I don't know, just some color on, you know.
Melanie Broussalian:I would say from my vantage point, I think what is so great and so like inspiring about my job and where I sit is that I am like like a performance where a performer has like blown the roof off of a place, like at the end of an aria, people will like stand up and clap and they'll like shout bravo or brava, and that's really like amazing. And then, like final curtain calls can be just like some of the loudest that you've ever heard, um, and so whenever that happens, it's like it's pretty magical, um, and so I think you know, even we've seen that from anywhere, from like turn dot to like frida and diego or omar. So it's, you know, we, the, the productions, really speak for themselves, and I think when people connect with them and they're sitting in their seats and then you kind of see the lights come up and how people are reacting to it, I think that's pretty awesome.
Eric Bornemann:I would say where fandom lives most extreme and I'm sure Megan has experienced this is the pure joy and pure hell of a CD signing, which still exists in the opera world. Yeah, people still sell cds, um. But yeah, I mean, when you get you know someone like renee fleming or something like that and they're they're gonna sign. See you people come out of the woodworks and even if they have the thing, they're gonna stay in that line so they can get that moment and they will tell their entire life story what the artist meant to them, to that person, no matter how fast you're trying to move them through that line, it is that's where, really, that that's the kind of place where it does to go back to that early. You know what's sort of the broadway comic book like that, like an artist cd signing on about something is is is extreme, yeah but you can feel the energy.
Damian Bazadona:I've been your point about feeling the energy and excitement before curtain. Before curtain, it's exciting. I sit next to megan. I just asked megan a million questions because she's just far more insightful, so I just I geek out with her.
Megan Goria:So I have to say it's. It's an experience that if you haven't been to the opera, you know there's. There's no microphones. There is, you know, a live orchestra with. You know, 50 to 100. You know instrumentalists directly, you know, sitting in front of you in the, in the orchestra. This is not an experience that you can have in any Broadway theater anymore. Everything is mic'd, the sound is not as live as it, as it has been. I mean the, just the pure wall of sound coming at you. It's like the old commercial with the guy sitting in the chair and getting, you know, getting the speaker blowing in his face. It's, it's absolutely an experience that you can't have anywhere else and I think that that draws people in to that same level of obsession and fandom. I mean, anybody who has been around opera people, myself included they will talk your ear off for hours about this one performance that they saw 50 years ago. It lives somewhere deep in your soul in a way that I think very few things actually can do.
Peter Yagecic:Well, and one of our audience members offered what I think is an answer to your question, damien, via the Q&A, so I just want to read it. Kathy Neuberger said the Nathan Lane episode of Elspeth on CBS this year opera fan murderer.
Melanie Broussalian:So if that's not an answer to your question.
Peter Yagecic:it's an answer to some question I love it.
Damian Bazadona:Thank you.
Peter Yagecic:Kathy Nathan Lane and that thing yes.
Megan Goria:Fantastic Peter. Any other questions from the audience?
Peter Yagecic:Well, you know we're running close to the end of time. Just, I think, one more question, kind of teeing off of one that you alluded to in your last question, megan how important is presenting opera outside of the hall for the future of the art form, whether it's simulcasting or opera at the beach? Just if you want to think about growing the fans and meeting them outside the hall, if you want to think about growing the fans and meeting them outside the hall, yeah, I mean I'd say for us it's critical.
Eric Bornemann:I mean we have a whole half of our programming sort of every year it falls under what we call the off-grand banner, which is works that either we're partnering with another performing arts venue, works that are not the right size to be in our 3,000-seat Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, or works that are sort of, you know, just more experimental by nature, and those we do, you know we party with Red Cat, or we do, you know, the United Theater Downtown, which used to be connected to the Ace Hotel but we now have a going on 10 years of a Halloween, you know, commissioned film score with operatic you know, sort of notes added into it that that's become like sort of this big LA tradition, which is great.
Eric Bornemann:So those points which is sort of like non-traditional programming that allows people to get in the door and see that opera is not scary and, you know, sort of changes their preconceived notions about what that is, is very helpful. And then also access. So we do, you know, through the LA County Super Board of Supervisors, we do opera at the beach and then opera in the park at one other park location that switches around LA every year, and we do free broadcast of an opera and people come out and bring their families, bring picnics. It's a really wonderful event and we have a lot of people who then come from that and then come see the opera here and sort of make those, make those, make those conversions.
Megan Goria:Just a quick plug for your local classical station, your local PBS station that are often broadcasting. You know recordings or live streams of of operas from either your local company or you know companies around the country. That is just an invaluable tool to be able to share lots of different perspectives and lots of different types of productions that you might never get to see. Um, that was that was how I got into. It was from radio broadcasts and pbs broadcasts.
Eric Bornemann:Support your local stations and let me also give a shout out to our connects team, which is our community engagement and uh education group, which is becoming more and more so so crucial, as music is just not taught in schools anymore and everything they do, you know it's. It's not like they have the teacher who's going to play the magic flute for them anymore, like so. You know, any exposure that we can, that we can help give you know, is going to flip the switch for someone and make them, you know, start them on a lifelong path of loving this art form and wanting to check it out more. So big problem to them.
Megan Goria:Yeah, absolutely, arts education departments in institutions are just really carrying the brunt of that. So yeah, great work all around.
Peter Yagecic:That's going to do it for this episode of Fandom Unpacked the podcast. If you liked what you heard, please be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Find out how to join us live for an upcoming recording at SituationLivecom slash fan. We'll see you next time, true believers.