Fandom Unpacked

Broadway’s Press Corps on the Fans Who Keep It Going

• Situation • Season 1 • Episode 13

Share episode

What does it mean to be a Broadway fan in today's digital world? In this illuminating conversation with top industry leaders from Playbill, Broadway News, and BroadwayWorld, we dive deep into the evolving landscape of theater fandom and how Broadway is adapting to connect with audiences in new ways.

The misconception that Broadway is niche takes center stage as our guests passionately dismantle this outdated notion. "It is the greatest myth of all time that Broadway is niche," asserts Ruthie Fierberg of Broadway News, pointing to the ubiquity of musical theater references across mainstream media as evidence of theater's widespread appeal. This perspective frames a fascinating discussion about how Broadway can leverage its broader-than-acknowledged fanbase.

From the surge in Tony Awards viewership (despite platform challenges) to the transformation of in-theater experiences, our guests explore how Broadway is meeting fans where they are. We discover how pre-show playlists, immersive environments, and strategic photo opportunities are transforming ordinary theatergoers into passionate advocates. Yet the panel emphasizes that while these enhancements matter, the show itself remains the core value.

Looking ahead, our guests share exclusive insights on upcoming productions generating significant pre-opening buzz, including Lost Boys, Ragtime, Chess, and the return of Mamma Mia! Their enthusiasm suggests a bright future for Broadway fandom as the industry continues to balance theatrical tradition with digital innovation.

Whether you're a Broadway superfan or simply curious about how entertainment fandom is evolving in the digital age, this conversation offers invaluable insights into the passionate community that keeps the lights of Broadway shining bright. Subscribe to hear more fascinating discussions about modern fandom across entertainment and sports!

Recorded Tuesday, June 24th, 2025
Hosts: Jeremy Kraus, Managing Partner, Situation & Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation
Guests: Alex Birsh, Vice President and COO, Playbill
Ruthie Fierberg, Executive Editor, Broadway News
Robert Diamond, Founder and CEO, BroadwayWorld
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation

Peter Yagecic:

You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast, an audio version of our regular live stream series where we unpack modern fandom with some of the brightest minds in sports and entertainment. I'm producer Peter Jicic and joining me for today's Q&A is Situation CEO and founder Damian Basadana and managing partner Jeremy Krause. And managing partner Jeremy Krause. Our guests today from the world of Broadway journalism are Alex Bursch, vice president and COO at Playbill, ruthie Feuerberg, executive editor of Broadway News, and Robert Diamond, founder and CEO of Broadway World. Here's Damian to get us started on this Q&A about fandom on Broadway.

Damian Bazadona:

Thank you, peter. Thanks for everyone for coming. Thank you to our awesome panel. I'm actually operating over a UK office this week. I know you're jealous of the weather here, which is about 75 here right now, and I've heard it's 98 where you're sitting. So sorry, but, peter, this is our first time doing one dedicated to Broadway on the Fandom Unpacked series. You've had Broadway con and some others, but this one's dedicated to Broadway, which, right, it's true, yeah, um and so it's. It's about time. It's a. The fandom around Broadway is remarkable. On my plane right here, I had a Broadway themed uh t-shirt, on to which someone stopped me and gave me a half hour lecture of all, anywhere, anywhere you are. So I'm going to just pass it to Jeremy. I think Jeremy has a whole load of questions to run through, but I just want to say these are the best of the best, and not only is our panel a group of kind people, but I'll tell you they're very open-minded. So when we bring new ideas or anything that's happening, the market that's changing.

Jeremy Kraus:

We have no doubt if we email them saying we have an idea. They're always fantastic at kind of saying how can we help and try new things, which I deeply admire. So thank you. And you know the timing of this is intentional. We're a couple weeks coming off of an amazing Broadway season with incredible product on stage, a variety of product that fans seem to have loved, and we're coming off the Tony Awards a couple of weeks ago.

Jeremy Kraus:

I'm going to start off with Ruthie and talk to her a little bit about the Tonys, and so you know it is the moment, if you're a Broadway fan, that everybody gathers around and you know, in the old days, gathered around the TV, you watched it live.

Jeremy Kraus:

Things have changed. We all know that. The great news is that the ratings are up on live viewing 38%, which is great year on year. Live viewing 38%, which is great year on year. But these days we're seeing, just with all TV, a different behavior and people are not only tuning in and it's great to see that the ratings were up, but we now know that people are watching those clips from the Tonys online on social, on YouTube, after the event, in far greater numbers than watching it live, and just wanted to kind of touch on that and the Tonys in general, and what power they still have over this fandom of Broadway, both people who have loved Broadway for years and are hardcore fans, but also new fans who are, you know, more casual theater goers who might be exposed to the Tonys and to Broadway who might be exposed to the Tonys and to Broadway.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Yeah, I mean, thank you for the question and for having all of us. The Tonys are our big knight in terms of like being able to reach the mainstream right, because we are so localized. We're not like the movie industry where there is a cinema all over the place. We take a little while to disseminate our stories through tours and regionals and community theater productions. So the Tonys are really like our night to reach everybody and be a nationwide and now actually a global community.

Ruthie Fierberg:

I think the 38% rise shows that we did a lot of things right. I think that having Cynthia Erivo as the host and tapping into the fandom around the Wicked movie and around her just global fame, but also her persona, and leaning into what she does well during the broadcast kept people watching and engaged. I think having Hamilton celebrate their 10th anniversary was very smart. So I think we did some good things there. I think that with live viewing, I think with anything, there's room for improvement and I think with live viewing you know it's hard to find the Tonys nowadays. You know talking about excuse me, when we were growing up all sitting around and watching the TV, there was only cable to watch. Then, right, like streaming wasn't a thing. When I was a kid, you either had cable or you didn't, and CBS is basic cable. So, like, you had television or you didn't. Now, yes, we're still on CBS, but so many people have cut cable. And then we do have the fact that this year, um, it wasn't just a paramount plus subscription is a, it was a paramount plus with showtime subscription. So I think actually the fact that we were up 38 when it was a essentially a premium cable um event is is hugely, um, reassuring about the fandom of Broadway.

Ruthie Fierberg:

But I also think it's complex of like, where do you find the first part? Oh, it's over here on Pluto. Oh, then you find the next part on Paramount Plus Showtime. Well, I have Paramount Plus so I can only watch the day after, and it's why we on Broadway News and I'm sure the other outlets have a how to Watch the Tonys article that is very, very high in clickage.

Ruthie Fierberg:

So, yeah, and in terms of YouTube clips, I think more is more. Watching at any time is good for us. But I think that one thing is that if you're looking for clips, you're probably. You know, it's the difference between a la carte and the chef's menu, and that you'll be looking for a certain show rather than seeing the full offering of Broadway. And I think if we branded the Tonys as Broadway's biggest concert because that's essentially what it is, it was so many performance numbers we would get even higher numbers.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Because, you know, I used to always watch the Oscars. I don't always watch them anymore because I don't see any of these movies. I'm at the theater four to five nights a week. I don't know what any of these categories are and it's not full of performances. So if we say, like you know, the Tony Awards are Broadway's biggest concert and then we're handing out, you know, eight awards, sure, right, then I don't have to have seen anything. So I think there's a lot to think about and luckily, we are going to hopefully grow from a place of growth in years to come.

Jeremy Kraus:

Absolutely, thank you. That all makes sense and I love the idea of Broadway's, you know, biggest concert. That is indeed what the Tonys are. It's what we do best.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why people tune in to like the first hour of the Thanksgiving Day Parade in bonkers numbers, right, they know it's all performances. So if we use that kind of language, I think you'll see real in your career for many, many years.

Jeremy Kraus:

And where are we these days in terms of the Broadway fan? Are you know what's the prevailing mood amongst them? Is there a lot of excitement? Are a lot of them disgruntled about something? I'm sure there's a mix of everything. We know that Broadway fans are about the most passionate that I've seen across any type of entertainment. But tell us kind of what we're seeing these days, what they're looking for. Give us kind of a pulse check on them.

Robert Diamond:

Sure, I think you know everybody's disgruntled about something these days. I have a long list that I keep on my phone if anybody wants to hear about it afterwards. But I think you know the overall Broadway fan mood is exciting. You know we think that anybody that comes to Broadway World either is a theater fan or could be or should be. So we were happy to see that on Tony night our traffic was way up and probably even more importantly for the industry, that has continued.

Robert Diamond:

So we're data geeks here.

Robert Diamond:

I'm a heavy data person.

Robert Diamond:

We get about I don't know 150,000 visitors a day and we break that up by the 15% that are the most hardcore fans that are living on our message board, sort of the 35% that are the more avid regular theater goers, and then the 50% of more casual fans that are seeing shows once a month, once every few months, etc.

Robert Diamond:

And those numbers were all up on Tony night and those numbers all continue to be up post-Tonys. And that's looking at both everything that was on the Tonys, everything that's still running as well as showing high interest in next season. And when we break the data down further, they're just as excited about some of the new plays coming in, some of the big revivals coming in, about some of the new plays coming in, some of the big revivals coming in. It's a really good continued interest that we're seeing more than last year and more than the year before. So I agree with what Ruthie said, that it's wonderful that they're both watching it live and then engaging with clips and stuff afterwards. But it's nice to see the continued life to this time of year and to the Tony season, that it's helped to lift up the theater industry and that that high interest and excitement continues.

Jeremy Kraus:

Yeah, absolutely. I think now is the moment where we're seeing so many new people come into Broadway A lot of it driven by, as everybody has talked about, the big stars, the big starry season that we had. But we're bringing in so many new people and now it's about how do we retain them? And great to hear, robert, that you know the idea that the Tonys did bring in a lot of new people and that you are seeing that increase, stay there and not just drop off immediately, so that's a really good sign, alex, I wanted to talk about kind of how Broadway fans have changed over the years and we'll look at it through the lens of a Broadway fan.

Jeremy Kraus:

But this really is to anybody consuming live entertainment, what they want to consume, and you know how they engage with shows, especially as they're. You know, maybe if they've ever already bought a ticket, like with that moment when you're trying to get them excited when they're coming to a show I know you guys launched, you know Playbill's pre-show and you know and even when they're in the theater and how marketers and how we can engage with people when they are in your space so that it's not just necessarily the show that they're seeing for two hours. It's the whole experience, so can you talk a little bit about how that's evolved?

Alex Birsh:

Well, I think, really, what you see is Broadway wanting to increase the customer experience just from a, let's say, a caretaking standpoint. Right, standpoint right. So I think that is the correct direction, especially with ticket prices overall, you know, steadily, continually going up, even though the biggest press that happens with the broadway ticket cost is always the top tickets always number the, the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. That that is the, that's the spicier headline, of course, when in reality there are many tickets to purchase underneath a hundred dollars each and, and, I think, the overall. What what is heartening to see is that more shows are starting to kind of begin the experience with that purchase ticket or even as you walk into the theater, when you feel a different vibe has begun, um, and we can even look at current shows that are have been on broadway for 10 years. We'll call, we'll say hamilton is one of them. You walk in, you sit down and you see this set, that is one that you probably recognize from photos or anything like that. Um, and then you look at a few blocks up and cabaret is like you are. You are walking into a nightclub, um, or even just very close by, john proctor is the villain. You walk in and with a very specifically curated and incredible playlist before you as you sit down and and it just the vibe shift is different and you can tell, even with those subtle things like, oh OK, we are really starting the experience earlier, and I think that is a really important thing and that is actually at the basis of why we created with.

Alex Birsh:

Why we created the Playbill pre-show is to get people feeling taken care of quickly after they had purchased a ticket. But from where a Broadway fan has kind of shifted a little bit, or what people's expectations are and all that I mean, often it comes down to wow, I paid X amount of money for this. This is going to be an exciting time. This whole thing is an experience. You don't just happen into a Broadway theater. Usually it is a very specifically targeted thing that you have done for yourself because you want something special, and so in the end, I think it's what can each show do to make the audience member feel special?

Alex Birsh:

You know, what can each show do to make the audience member feel special, um, coming in and and feeling like they're about to experience something that they really haven't before and is worth what they paid, and and so and and we, as Playbill are, are, uh, a really strong brand that's involved in all of that process and we are so lucky to be um and it's just really it's fun to see shows starting to to really kind of amp this up. Uh, and and for our pre-show purposes, it's shown to be really quite highly engaged with um, to the point of like 70 plus percent open rates of like emails and things, which is insane. But it's because people want to be talked to and they want, and especially from like a brand like us, that they trust as part of the process. So it's it's exciting to see, and we're uh, and we're excited to keep exploring ways to enhance it.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Can I add something about ticket price that? I know that we're not talking about ticket price is like the theme of this conversation, but I think it's really relevant to fans because, as the conversation continues about fans and word of mouth like being our biggest ambassadors, I think that something we can do is leverage fans into talking about actually how affordable theater Broadway is for what it is that. First of all, we did number crunching for the end of the season. We're big fans of Data 2. We share that in common with Broadway World, but from 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation, adjusted for inflation, the average ticket price is only $15 more across Broadway. That includes Othello, glenn Gary, good Night, good Luck, dorian Gray. That includes it, and just raw numbers. The average ticket price across Broadway shows at the end of the season was $129 a ticket.

Ruthie Fierberg:

So I think we really need to be pushing the narrative with our fans that, like you can do this, is it something special? Yes, it's not a $20 movie ticket. It is something live and happening in front of your face and, like I say all the time, there are at least 100 people who have touched the thing or who are working at that moment on the thing that you are watching. Is it not worth it to pay them each $1? Is it not worth it to pay them each $1? I don't think we talk about the value of theater enough, because people are paying 80 bucks for a drink and appetizer and dinner at like a mid-range restaurant. So I think for the top tier theater in the world, we can do that, and caretaking, you know, and making it a full experience is definitely part of that. But I think we can use our fans to share that message as well.

Jeremy Kraus:

Absolutely. I mean, I'll say for myself, just went with my family of four to how to Train your Dragon right, it was IMAX, but you know we had fun, but we spent $100. We hadn't even gotten to concessions, and all of that just for tickets. These days even more than that. Actually, it was like almost $30 per ticket now and so, yeah, it is the value you get.

Jeremy Kraus:

But you know, we're in a moment now where there's a lot of chatter about how some really great shows are unfortunately not able to last on Broadway and you know, maybe they don't have a star or IP, but you know how this is piggybacking. On the last question, we were just talking about how fans have changed, how fans are trying to, or we're trying to, give them an experience that is worth experiencing and we're trying to give them the opportunity to share that Right. So is there, you know, is there more that any of you feel like Broadway can or should be doing with that in-venue experience that maybe is being done outside? Obviously, we all know put away your phones when the shows start, but can we talk a little bit about any ideas you might have of how you can provide fans with a little more than maybe they're currently getting and Alex, you started to touch on this the playlist, but any other thoughts you all have in this realm.

Robert Diamond:

Sure, yeah, I mean, I think photo booths and theaters have done very well. We saw that with everything from a stack of mattresses, a once upon a mattress and Gatsby, there's a to share it. That you know you're treating your ambassadors as brand ambassadors, that you're giving them this opportunity to capture additional content, to tell their friends that were there that they're at the show. So those that are adding on to that with QR codes, with ways of sending out show previews, and audio clips and video clips, stuff that really gives a window into this special experience, that's, you know, worth all $129 is, I think, key to word of mouth and key to building that conversation.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Yeah, I would say, for the experience part, I think the show I want to advocate for the show being enough, that I am all, please. I love to moderate a post-show talk back or have fun at the photo booth with my friend, but I want to say, for the experience, the show is enough and the extra is extra. And the extra is extra in terms of selling the show and word of mouth. I think that convenience is our best ally and if you have a photo booth set up, like Rob said, like, especially if it's integrated into the theme of the show, I think the Merrily we Roll Along photo booth at the front of the Hudson Theater is one of the most successful because you felt like you were a part of the ad campaign.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Um, I, I also think that, like, maybe people are always taking photos under the marquees. Maybe there's a way to put, um, you know, a photo kiosk that has the exact right angle so that we don't have to stop people um, along the way on the street to do to do that. But the more pictures, the easier it is to take pictures, the more likely they are to take them and to post them if they don't have to, like, get creative on their own.

Alex Birsh:

And we know from like a selling standpoint, right. We know that and let's say, we're focused on musicals. People want to showcase a really fun something that they've just been to, especially at the end of a show, when everybody's emotions are really high and they're excited and and everybody wants to, everybody feels like they're walking on air. That is a great moment and I and I know, and that you know, a few Broadway shows in the past I've literally said like before, before the show starts, we, you can take your phone out at the very end and we'll tell you when you can do it. And like, and, and that helps in a number of different ways. But really like, and I remember this example of like Waitress, when Sara Bareilles was in it, jason Mraz was in it, and they said at the very end like, all right, folks, take your phones out, we're going to give you a little special treat. Now that obviously I don't know how many times that can happen, but they sang by the idea and they were like film this and it went crazy on social media and it was a really great kind of window into the experience, while also still honoring the fact that people who do want to go to a Broadway show.

Alex Birsh:

And to Ruthie's point, they want to disconnect and just like, see what the art is, see what the thing is that they just paid for, and they don't want someone next to them with, like, their phone lighting up and all that stuff and their phone buzzing. No, nobody wants that. They want to actually watch the thing, but then at the very end they want to brag about it. And then to Robert's point point as well how do we give them the tools in order to brag about it? And that should be thought of every single day on, like, how do we do that? Often with musicals, it's music, and so how can, how can that be um communicated in a really efficient way?

Peter Yagecic:

um, as well as just the overall experience fandom unpacked is brought to you by an award-winning marketing agency built for live entertainment that champions the power of unforgettable shared experiences around the world. We offer full marketing and creative services for experience-based brands in live entertainment, attractions, theater, sports, arts and culture, and more. Check us out at SituationInteractivecom. Now back to our Q&A.

Jeremy Kraus:

Robert, these days we are seeing a real big explosion of Broadway conversation happening on Reddit. It's become very popular a place where people are really having heated, passionate conversations about anything, but also Broadway has a real nice niche there, tell me. I mean, broadway World is the OG. You guys are the ones that are known as the Broadway message board. There's always a lot of conversation about what's happening on those boards and we know that not always are the nicest things being said, but the old adage is that there's no such thing as bad press. What are your thoughts on? You know the idea of? Is all conversation that's happening, obviously respectful conversation, but it's all conversation, whether it's critical, whether it's, you know, disgruntled. Is conversation about Broadway good in general, on social, on chat boards, on Reddit? Is that a good thing for this industry and for fans to have that place to kind of argue or debate?

Robert Diamond:

Absolutely. I mean the more places to talk about Broadway, the better, and the more people talking about Broadway, the better, and the more places that people are talking about Broadway, the more likely they are to buy a Broadway ticket. To come to a website that has Broadway in its name or it's you know, an iconic brand like Playbill, etc. And that's the whole reason that I started the website was to give people more ways to engage. I'd say, going back to the data like the amount of people that read Broadway World's message board versus post on a message board and the same thing is true with Reddit and social media is so much higher. So it's important to always keep in mind that it's you know X number of people saying something, but you know a high multiple of X that are actually reading it and engaging with it. And what we see all the time because we look at this data, is whether it's good, bad or indifferent. It's making people click to look at more information about the show on the website. Let me see what they're talking about, let me see why they say it's wonderful or why they say it's terrible. So it leads to more investigation in that department and it's really about how do you leverage that to have the conversations that you want to have with these fans and with these audiences.

Robert Diamond:

So we built a number of tools that actually look at Reddit, look at social media, look at our own boards, find commonalities of what people are saying and then break it down further into again, like these are the avids, these are the casuals, these are the hardcore fans. And really it's about if you can look at that data, look and see what people are saying. That's driving interest and awareness and then figuring out the next step of how do we come up with content or a social media strategy that plays off of that to say, okay, this is why they're coming. Now, what can we show them? To get them to buy a ticket, to get them to tell their friends about it, to adjust their opinion by correcting a misconception or putting in some behind-the-scenes information, to remind people that these are real artists working on something.

Jeremy Kraus:

They're trying to do, this even if you think they're doing that and this, you know it bridges the gap a bit.

Jeremy Kraus:

And the thing that's so unique about Broadway fans is the fact that you know if a show's on Broadway, especially before it starts to tour and some shows don't tour the idea that you know a vast majority of people talking about a show following a show. We see this in our research all the time. They are not able to see the show, they're not going to see the show, it's in New York, but yet they're still huge fans of the show. They still advocate and recommend the show to people who come to New York. And you know, if you're a fan of movies or of music or of TV, anybody, anywhere you are, can consume that and you can form your own opinion. You know Broadway is so unique in that so many people talking about it will never see it and have never seen it, but yet they are still so passionate about it. With that, I'm going to see Peter, if you want to open it up to some fan questions.

Peter Yagecic:

Yeah, we have so many great questions coming in and I'm going to do my best to kind of merge them together on the fly because I want to make sure we get to as many of these as we can. So this first question I love. I'd love to pitch it to you, alex first, and it's come up on some of our other conversations on this series. But it says the Playbill pre-show, in welcoming people to the theater, seems to be an important mechanism for guests of each show, where that's available. Are guests the same thing as fans? If not, does Playbill help move guests into the direction of fandom? And I'd love to merge that with the conversation we were having about new audiences as well. Do we need to move those newer audiences to shows who maybe they've never come to a show before, in the direction of fandom to make sure that they come back? And Alex said we'd love to hear you start with that, but then anyone who wants to get a hand on that ball, please, sure.

Alex Birsh:

So your question about, like, what is the difference between a guest and a fan? That's interesting, I think. That, or whoever's question that was, I think I mean the moment that a guest becomes a fan, I mean honestly, it happens, as we were talking about before, like in the seat, as it's starting, and the hope is that you'd start turning them into a fan earlier, throughout that experiential process. That's what we talked about before, from a moving people toward kind of being a cheerleader even of it, of a show. I think that's such a fascinating. It's a fascinating part of it because overall and this even goes toward the Tonys Broadway itself is aspirational. Like every, almost every aspect of Broadway is aspirational. It is whether that's working within it, whether and and seeing it is so aspirational, whether that's working within it and seeing it is so aspirational to a vast majority of this country, and it's the reason why the Tonys are such an important moment, because you get to see this aspiration in its brightest form. But even, as you're saying about how people can just be and I think, jeremy, you mentioned like people could just be fans who just want to be like to evangelize it for, for their friends and family and all that it's. It's like them saying I want to share my aspiration with you. Go in my stead, please. I desperately want to see this show. I can't, you live in Pennsylvania, so-and-so you can do it.

Alex Birsh:

And so I think ultimately, like we talked about, it's the tools in which we share what these shows are not just about, but why they resonate with people. And there is a way, and for so long we have we, as in the kind of global, we within the Broadway sphere gate kept what was on the stage. It's like, if you're going to go, you're going to see it. We're not going to allow you to see it beforehand. We're just going to show these two cat eyes and that's all we're showing you, and that's it. And then you're going to be so curious on what that is and you're going to go and look in the 80s. Sure, what else are people doing? I guess I don't know, but, but, like now, it's really about how can we start to make you fall in love and and how can we make sure that we can show you that this is in fact a show for you and, ultimately, the overall message, and that's what I think the tony's did a very good job with this year because of all the performances and everything like that.

Alex Birsh:

What it needs to do an even greater job of is saying that, look, whatever you think broadway is, it's not all that, because you have a show for you out there, you just don't know about it yet.

Alex Birsh:

And that's ultimately where these people who are really trying to get to Broadway but they can't, people who are fans but want to be guests of a show and then doing the exact opposite.

Alex Birsh:

It's about how do we increase the army of each show, how do we get these people to um, to really showcase why a show is special and it can be for you, and and there are a lot of ways to do that, but most often it's about showcasing what the vibe of the show is, what it looks like on stage, what it sounds like and what it's like to go and actually explore it, and and there are tons of things out there that do this for, like you, this for hotels and really great restaurants and all these things that also have higher points of entry, but it's like look at this whole thing that you get to experience, and that's, I think, at the heart of what Broadway needs to do better, and it's something that we at Playbill love trying to find ways to enhance that because we're so deeply involved in it. But that, ultimately, I think, is what Broadway needs to do and to tap into to make it more successful.

Ruthie Fierberg:

I just wanted to briefly add that I think there is a difference between guests and fans and I think you need both. I do not think that every guest needs to become a fan. I think like I'm going to offend Alex here right now and say I am not a fan of baseball. You offended me. I feel like I can go to a baseball game. I think it's the feeling of being able to go, knowing that I could have a good time, knowing what to expect, like Alex said, with the pre-show and the caretaking. So I'm not a fan.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Casual fan is a once a month person, because I would say a casual fan is maybe a once a once a year person. So that's an amazing engagement for the casual fan of Broadway world. Um, and I totally understand what you know, the Broadway world casual fan but like we need to say that it's okay if you only want to come once a year. It's not only for the people who come, who come every single week and and and it kind of uh ties into um. You know the idea of there are so many shows that um, that open at once and that don't necessarily get the momentum.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Like I saw, there was a question in the Q&A about Dead Outlaw or like any of these shows that have announced closing that people really love, there's a great fandom for, like the show score is off the charts, kind of thing, and I think we have to start thinking about well, how often do non-industry people really go to the theater? Right, like if someone's going once a month. If five shows open in a month or one show opens in a month, they're still going once a month. So what's your? You know what's happening there, but I do think that you take care of guests and fans equally so that people have a place to choose, but that not every guest will or needs to become a fan.

Peter Yagecic:

I love it, and you didn't offend me with the baseball thing, I'm right there with you. I want to do another combo audience question and try to get two things in, and this goes back to theony's a little bit, and and also the, the, the video that comes out from shows. So do you feel that the ubiquity, uh, of high quality video, of broadway shows year-round diminishes the impact of the tony broadcast appearance? Does the performance on the tony's serve every show? Well, and I'm going to mix that with another questions on a similar theme. And, ruthie, I'd love to kick this to you, since this was your concept Would it be a good or a bad thing if Broadway's biggest concert, as you've named, the Tonys, was simulcast on every possible platform YouTube, tiktok, facebook, etc. Would that be a fan-friendly move or would it dilute the exclusivity? So, wherever you want to grab that combo question, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Ruthie Fierberg:

All right, I that combo question. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. All right, um, I don't think anything dilutes anything. I don't think anything dilutes anything. I think if you see one Elphaba video, you're going to want to see another one. I think everybody watches every single Elphaba's version of no good deed and the wizard and I and defying gravity, and we watch every Glinda's popular and we like over and then, and then we watch the same Glinda's popular as a? Um stripped down acoustic guitar version and then we hear, sorry, sometimes the slime tutorial and sometimes we, you know, see the, the produced B roll. Um, I think that the Tony's performance is exciting because it's the Tony's, because it's surrounded by the other Broadway shows, because sometimes you're doing a medley of songs, because you are seeing a company that's bigger than the company that is on stage, because they use every swing and every cover to fill that stage at Radio City Music Hall, which why not tell people that? I don't think that that's a crime, I don't think we should be avoiding that transparency. So I think year-round only builds excitement to then see it and tune in live and see the energy of that In terms of the exclusivity of, like CBS and Paramount Plus or across platforms.

Ruthie Fierberg:

Since we always call this Broadway Super Bowl, I would actually be really curious what the data is on the Super Bowl Because, like you, can watch the Super Bowl on whatever network is carrying it, and also on YouTube TV and also on whatever.

Ruthie Fierberg:

I would think that for Broadway, having it in more places is only good for us, whether CBS wants to let go of the exclusivity in that way or license it out you know that's, those are TV deals, um, and I don't know if that makes it a less valuable product to carry, and that's something that we should, as an industry, absolutely consider before, before we were to disseminate it more. But in terms of just the principle of does more dilute or is more advantageous, I land on more is advantageous and personally, I think we should be live streaming Broadway shows, and I think that Good Night and Good Luck proved it. I think that's you will. You can't add seats to a Broadway theater, you can't do it. So how are we going to grow? I think you should be capturing, I think you should be specifically live streaming, but that's a whole other conversation.

Peter Yagecic:

Tease me up for, I think, the last audience question we'll have time for, and I'd love to get this one over to you, robert. As you know fans of digital and data, but then anyone who wants to jump in what are the biggest changes you've seen in the industry in the digital age? In what ways has Broadway still not caught up to this modern digital era of entertainment, and what challenges does that bring?

Robert Diamond:

I think specifically through the lens of fandom, if you have any thoughts on that now back and forth dialogue with every show, having a presence on every social media network and posting continual content to have more of the continual conversation with their fans.

Robert Diamond:

That's important. I would say. As far as things that it could do better is looking at the guest versus the customer and looking at the different levels of fans and figuring out how to engage with each one differently. It's a top-of-mind thing here, because we've got a bunch of AI and personalization projects that we're working on, but it's really about communicating with the right person at the right time in the right place. So having dialogue with that once-a-year theater-goer or somebody who asks the new bros on Broadway shows that are coming out I saw in the Q&A as well it's talking to that person and giving them a different message versus the wicked superfan. So I think an area for Broadway to improve on is to better go through the data and better define what the different audiences are and have a strategy for communicating with them. So you're not just blasting everything out in mass and hoping that you're reaching the right people, but really getting more fine grain with that communication.

Jeremy Kraus:

Awesome. Thank you all. 40 minutes has flown by. I wish we could talk forever, and we will in our separate side conversations, or maybe we'll do a part two in the future. I'm going to end with asking each of you to get a little hot take on a hot day of the coming shows. It could be Broadway or off-Broadway. Off-broadway. What's the one, or maybe the two, that you think there's going to be a groundswell of fans flocking to, whether it be in person to see the show or just talking about Where's the buzz heading? What's coming up that you think is going to really catch on with a bunch of fans, whether it be in person or online? Alex, I'm going to start with you and then we'll go around. What show do you think is coming?

Alex Birsh:

Well, I mean, you know, I feel like Lost Boys is going to be like a huge thing. I think it's going to hit very particular points of interest for a number of different people across multiple kind of fandom spectrums. Um, and and from the more traditional sense, uh, I I can only imagine how pumped people will be to actually go sit and see ragtime instead of just over and over again watching the announcement video, which was really fun, uh, which I've done so many times but like that many times. But I think those two are great examples of ways that we've got some really exciting stuff to be really pumped for and I think both are going to really resonate.

Robert Diamond:

Robert Sure, we're seeing a ton of early interest in chess, which I think has done a great job building early buzz, and we're also watching very closely. Damien over in London, for Hercules, as well as Evita and Verlesque, seem to be things that Broadway fans are keeping a close eye on and trying to count down to when they're coming over as well. Awesome, ruth.

Ruthie Fierberg:

I think it's Mamma Mia rage time. I think everybody is ready to feel good. I think everybody is ready for nostalgia. I think people are impatient for Mamma Mia 3. I think that it's been 20 years. I think everybody will always love ABBA. I think people are ready to dance and have a good time, and the fact that it's coming in August I think people are ready to dance and have a good time and the fact that it's coming in August. I think that to the Winter Garden, like you know, it feels like a moment and it feels like something that we're just ready to let our hair down and be all be dancing queens.

Ruthie Fierberg:

But I also just wanted to add just one thought in general that in terms of fandom, I think there are so many more of us than we even believe there to be. It is the greatest myth of all time that Broadway is niche. We are not niche. Broadway theaters are local, but Broadway is not niche. Every time I watch an episode of television, no matter what it is, there is a musical theater reference in there. There are too many writers writing those things and too many people watching it, recognizing those things and everybody showing up. I think we have more to grow and more to leverage. So, um, yeah, and, and like Alex said, there's a show. There's a show for everyone, everywhere.

Alex Birsh:

So there are so many shows mama Mia or not there are so many shows out there, like, that's the thing, the menu is not, and it is. You know, the menu is not this little special one that happens inside of a menu. The menu is the big one, it's the Cheese, it's. How do we get people to know? And how do we get people to not just be a fan of, like the theater of their shows, but to also say you know, I saw that keanu reeves is going to be on broadway and my buddy like sees john wick, everything, and has seen everything that he's ever done. I bet he's gonna love, he's gonna want to see him in person and like, that's the kind of like.

Alex Birsh:

That's the kind of stuff too, that like it's such natural word of mouth. But and that is a reason why, um, big stars are coming to broadway to try and like usher these conversations forward. But then it's, how do we take advantage of that of like. Oh well, there's also this awesome show that a friend of mine might love. That is about a uh, a course that had a hell of a life after it was dead.

Peter Yagecic:

That's going to do it for this episode of fandom unpacked the podcast. If you liked what you heard, please be sure to leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Find out how to join us live for an upcoming recording at situation livecom slash fan. We'll see you next time, true believers.