Fandom Unpacked

You Had To Be There: Randy Weiner on Making Immersive Experiences Fans Can’t Quit

• Situation • Season 1 • Episode 20

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What happens when a show stops asking you to watch and starts inviting you to be seen? We sit down with impresario Randy Weiner, the creative force behind Sleep No More, Queen of the Night, The Box, and the new Phantom Masquerade, to explore how human touch, story clarity, and radical hospitality can transform a night out into a memory that won’t let go.

Randy traces his spark back to the balcony at Cats, where performers spilled into the aisles and changed his idea of what theater could be. From there, he breaks down why so many “immersive” attempts stall: great ideas without great execution. His approach feels more like opera than chasing the latest trend; cast world‑class talent, bring in award‑winning designers, invest in lights, sets, and sound that hold up inches from an audience’s face, and take responsibility for the entire journey, from box office to bar to goodbye. We dig into why Masquerade insists on formalwear and masks, how that shared ritual forges instant cohesion, and why the million‑dollar chandelier uses real crystals instead of plastic.

If you’re curious how to turn spectators into co‑conspirators, and why the details matter when audiences are within arm’s reach, this conversation is your blueprint. Follow the show, share it with a friend who loves live experiences, and leave a review to help more curious fans find us.

Recorded Tuesday, November 25th, 2025
Hosts: Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation & Maureen Andersen, President & CEO, INTIX
Guest: Randy Weiner, Founder, Outside the Box Amusements
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation

Peter Yagecic:

You're listening to Fandom Unpacked from Situation and Intix, the podcast series where we unpack modern fandom with some of the brightest minds in sports and entertainment. I'm producer Peter Yajisic, and joining me for today's QA are Situation CEO and founder Damien Basadana and president and CEO of Intix, Maureen Anderson. Our guest today is Impresario Randy Weiner, a creative producer of some of the coolest live events happening around the world from Sleep No More to The Box to this year's Phantom Masquerade. Randy's also the founder of Outside the Box Amusements, a theatrical production company that wins over fans by combining world-class entertainment, bespoke hospitality, and innovative design. I'll be back in a bit to ask Randy some listener questions submitted to us at fandomunpack.com. Damien, would you like to get us underway?

Damian Bazadona:

I would love to. Randy, you are widely considered one of the pioneers of immersive entertainment. I am I might be your number one fan. From Sleep No More to Queen of the Night to Masquerade, which is all the buzz right now. Take us through your thinking of putting audiences inside of a story instead of just in front of it through all these amazing experiences that you've created.

Randy Weiner:

I think that is the essence of what got me into this glamorous and exciting business is just exactly that. The idea that we can get even more into the action as an audience. You know, it's funny because when I was doing to do masquerade, obviously I had to talk to Andrew Lloyd Weber. And Andrew Lloyd Weber is a genius in so many ways, but on a very primal level, he is a genius of being a theatrical empresario himself. Like these crazy ideas like, hey, why don't we have a chandelier come crashing down in the audience? Why don't we have people on roller skates, roller skate all around the audience? And really the signal cardinal moment in my life was when I went to see cats as a young Randy, and I was sitting in the balcony, and all those cats came running off the stage and started running around the balcony and touching me. I was like, oh my God, this is the craziest thing I've ever experienced. And oh my God, you can do this in the theater. You can do anything here. And I really think that set me on this course where I was like, wow, you know, you can go so much further in the sort of live potential of an audience and performer interaction. And, you know, we all in the theater talk about, I was so touched, you know, in any sort of art form, I was really touched by it. But like, you can really touch people, you know, that was really an exciting thing. So I think that those are like sort of the key things for me is like, wow, you know, human touch is a really powerful thing. And um if you want to touch people, pull out all the stops. So I was like, why doesn't it? In a weird way, I feel that way about masquerade. I'm like, once I've done this, isn't everyone gonna want to do this? Because it's just so intense when the phantom comes up and, you know, it's great on the phantom, unbelievable singers, unbelievable music, unbelievable everything. But the most important part is when he comes up and touches your shoulder. I mean, at the end of the day, all this stuff we do, this great city, all the things we've built in the world, it it's really just we give it all up to, you know, have another human being touch us, right? I mean, or it's all a way to get someone to touch us, you know. So yeah, that's why it's all about what you asked, Damon.

Damian Bazadona:

There's been a lot of immersive experiences that I and by the way, I use the word immersive very carefully because I know some people actually despise that term because it means so many different things, but we'll just play along. There's been a fair number of new immersive experiences. Um, we hear a lot of them that just don't pan out to be all that good for lack of a better way of framing it. What is it that you think people get wrong about it? And you've seen enough stuff. Like, what's what do you feel like is usually the missing sauce that you feel like they're just people just aren't getting?

Randy Weiner:

Yeah, I I think for me, I just I can only talk about myself, is I really think you want everything to be great. Like in opera, you know, like the sets are great, the music's great, the singers are great, everything's great. So I just look at it for me personally, that I want everything to be top of its class. Because that's, you know, I want the performers. I mean, we've got Du Pinero in our Phantom of the Opera in an immersive. I can't even believe he's doing it, but he loves it. You know, he because it's like a new different thing, not to mention all these guys who are the stars of Hamilton and Lee Mizerables. I mean, it's it's insane the people we had, all these women who were Christines in the show. So to get the top, top level talent is obviously the most important thing. And then, you know, then we just go down by degrees. And it's like, all right, well, let's get the best set designers. All right, let's go get some Tony Award-winning set designers. Let's go get some, you know, the best lighting designer, the best everything. Um, so I think that's how I think about it. Like, I just want everything to be the absolute best. And I think sometimes I've seen shows on, wow, that was a really cool idea, but you didn't execute it to the level of the idea. And I never want that to be me. You know, I and I and I can't, I'm kind of a like a messed up perfectionist where I just need everything to be at the high level. And again, when you do immersive stuff, it's so vast. I mean, you're because you're the theater. You're you're often the box office yourself, because you know, you can't just hire telecharge to do your thing. You're the F and D staff. You're the, you're everything. You know, I'm the ushers. So it's just a lot. Like, I think people don't realize, like, oh, I want to do an immersive show. But like, if you're really doing an immersive show, every step of the way, you know, you're you're taking responsibility for treating people in the in the best possible manner. So again, I feel like I'm lucky because I have a like a big F and B background also, which really taught me to think differently from theater people. Because when you're in hospitality, um, it's not acceptable. I mean, I think people do a theater show, you just present your show, and um, you know, some people like it, some people don't like it. But for me, that's not good enough. I take that kind of 11 Madison Park, like, oh my God, this person didn't like it. Excuse me, sir, can I take out, take away your, you know, whatever you ordered and give you something else? Do you know what I mean? Like that, that's how I see the world. So, you know, it's like radical, radical hospitality. And again, I'm not sure that most ticketed people think that way, you know.

Damian Bazadona:

And yeah, they I would say that I think one thing you do exceptionally well is I think you invest in the product. You start there. You say this thing has to be a great experience. You don't necessarily, this is a conversation we've had, but uh, you don't necessarily start with the what's the audience gonna want as much as is this a great experience that audiences are going to like? And I think there's a big part we've taught, we'll have, I'm sure we'll get into it later about marketing budgets and the where you make your investments is in the experience itself, which I think is is massively impressive. One more question before I know Maureen, uh Maureen to get in. Um, you know, you built experiences, uh, I think of uh sleep no more, for example, where fans don't just visit once. They come three, four, ten, you hear these crazy stories, the amount of time people come. And and when I had seen Sleep No More, I just saw people around me even talking, saying this is their fifth time there. What design, how do you think about that? Just in terms of whether, I don't know if you want to call them design principles or levers, you were pulling to like, how do you think about that when you're putting forth some of these experiences to drive repeat visitation? Because a lot of people listen to this podcast, that's got that's an envy of like, wow, how do you kind of keep that type of retention of people coming back more and more?

Randy Weiner:

And it's funny, I don't, I never think about that. I never think, oh, they're gonna come back. People say that to me all the time, like, oh Randy, it's great if we don't, you know, show everything, show our complete hand, and there's a way for people to come back and see the whole thing. And I literally always shut them down, Damien. I'm always like, don't think like that. Every time you come has to be absolutely amazing. So I actually think it's because we give such an amazing experience and it is so intimate and it is so personal, you're gonna come back. So it's it's it's just it's just like a real almost like a bugaboo of mine. Like whenever I do this, it's like they think like I'm so clever and I've figured out a way to like not reveal everything. But it's not that at all. It's it's really just delivering the best possible experience, making it the most personal, making an audience member feel really seen. You know what I mean? Like literally, I'm at I was at Masquerade Phantom yesterday, or two days ago, and um a woman comes up, she's like, This is my 15th time. And I was like, wow, why do you come back 15 times? And she just said, the cast knows her because they see her. It's not like, you know, they're lit up and she's in the dark and just seeing them. They're seeing her. So she just feels like she knows them and has a real connection, not to mention my whole hospitality mode, because when you go to a restaurant, you go back to the restaurant a lot of times. I'm not interested in like a one-off. If you have a bar, neighborhood bar, you want people to come back all the time. You want to have your name known if you're the customer. You know what I mean? And the the people I hire love that. They're into that hospitality thing. So I think that breeds this return. I mean, it's funny, like people think I'm much more clever than I am. People are much more clever maybe than than I am. Maybe that's a better way to put it. I doubt they think I'm that clever, but I think they're very clever and they come up with all these ideas, but that's not at all what it is. It's just to deliver the best, most personalized experience possible.

Damian Bazadona:

It's a fancy that idea, you know? Yeah, I know. Well, that's what's so funny. It's so funny.

Randy Weiner:

It's really just going down to like first principles of like, what are we doing here and not being stuck in just okay, well, this is how a show's done. And it all goes back to that Andrew Legweibler Katz experience. It was like, oh my God, you could like you can do anything. You can do anything. So own that. And if you're gonna do anything, really go for it. Really make it, you know, as unique and special as possible. Don't just stop and be like, well, you know, we did the show Donkey Show. I'm gonna tell the story. We did the show Donkey Show, which happened in a nightclub. And I don't know if you guys ever heard of it, ever saw it. It was a version of Midsummer Night's Dream. Happened in a nightclub. We met so many people who would come up to us like, I want to do my show in a nightclub. And I was like, you know something? You're saying that, but you don't know what really is to do a show in a nightclub. When you do a show in a nightclub, you have to do the kind of show where when the barbacks are carrying, you know, all these empty glasses going clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, you know, making so much noise, that has to be part of your show. So it's like people see sometimes the things I do and they take the little bits of it that they want, you know, they think, oh, it's cool to do a show in a nightclub, or oh, you know, you don't have to pay as much rent because the bar pays for everything. Yeah, but it's it, you have to accept that a waiter is going to come by in the middle of your show and serve a drink. And then some people would say, oh, can we use your venue, this club I was running for the um for a show? And it just wouldn't work out because they'd be like, shh, you know, like, no, that's not it. You know, you have to meet the venue at where it is, you have to meet the audience where they are.

Maureen Andersen:

So I I love the analogy. It's kind of like everybody thinking they can just be Mickey and Judy. I've got a barn, my mom will make costumes, let's do a show. So it and in when you said the part about taking bits, you know, these experiences are popping up kind of everywhere. Denver, Charlotte, London, Las Vegas, most certainly. Is are you taking, are you paying attention to those and taking bits from them, either in inspiration or things, oh, I don't want to do that, or you know, do they inspire you? Are you paying attention to that stuff? Yeah.

Randy Weiner:

Um I, you know, this is the kind of experience I like, is when it's really intense and when you really connect with people. That's the part I love. You know, this speaks to what Damien was saying, Maureen, like the immersive. Immersive is an enormous category. So when I go to a, you know, I'll use Van Gogh as like the the biggest name in that industry. When they put a bunch of Van Gogh pictures on the wall, that to me is like not the part of it that's interesting to me. You know what I mean? Great, interesting to lots of people, not interesting to me. So when you talk about shows, I I will I do go to the Van Gogh when I go to those projection shows. Um, and I get very little out of them. And in a way that reinforces for me, God, it's so important to have human beings. I mean, like, yes, I love going to see all these things, and they always turn me on. Sometimes they turn me on because of a negative response. Sometimes they'll turn me on because of a positive thing. Um, and it's it's really like a very small group of people still who are in immersive. You know what I mean? Like, there's probably like 10 of us who are really like doing the kind of immersive where somebody buys a ticket. You know, there's a lot of people who do an immersive thing for a brand, or you know, there's all sorts of immersive things that are going on. But when you're saying, hey, I'm delivering something that's so awesome that you're gonna pay for it and you're gonna love it so much at the end, you're gonna tell your friends to pay for it. That's like a whole other level, obviously, from like, hey, I did a one-off and everyone came for free, and you know, and I do those too. Um, but you know, that it's just that there's a very small squad of people. And I'm and I feel very personally close to all those people. Like honestly, I I just you just see them, and they're like, we're all just trying to figure this thing out that is far from being figured out.

Maureen Andersen:

Well, in that of that whole conversation about figuring it out is that your company, your website, what you talked about earlier is that you like marrying that concept of the of absolute world-class entertainment with hospitality and design so that it's like this whole package. And in practice, I'm curious: is that what does that combination unlock? And what does it do for your audiences? How does that change them?

Randy Weiner:

I think audiences come in to these experiences because, again, it is so new, wanting very different things. I think there's people who come in and they actually want a story. And when you talk about Sleep No More, that's my own show in a way. I learned a lot from that. Because there are a lot of people who leave that show and be like extremely disappointed, you know, frustrated that they there wasn't a story and just felt like it didn't add up to anything. So, again, that's why for me, what I learned is like, I want to try something like Masquerade. I want to try something where actually people, everyone's gonna go in and understand the story and laugh at a specific point and cry at the end, and you know, imagine themselves either as Phantom or Christine, you know, and really deliver that to people. So I I think to do everything then well, like then allows more people to come because that's a certain kind of person who wants the story and wants the dramatic kind of tension and emotion at the end. There's another side who just goes in and they're just like, oh my god, just being in this space is so overwhelming and like so cool. And like, you're kidding, I'm in the Phantom's world. And for them, I want it to be like they fully entered the phantom world of their dreams. Do you know what I mean? Like, like whatever they wished, I want, I just desperately want to deliver them. So, like we put in a million dollar, literally a million dollar chandelier that's twice as big as the one on Broadway. Has instead of the one on Broadway, has like, you know, plastic crystals because it has to be a reasonable weight. We went nuts. We're like, let's use real crystals because you're right next to it. We you can't get away with stagecraft. So, you know, like that. So I think it just I just keep going. Like every single aspect of it, I want to be the best because there's gonna be different audiences that were looking for whatever that thing is. Um, and I want it, and again, there's people who want the story, but then there's people who all they live for is the secret one-on-one in Phantom where a character takes you into a corner and talks to you. And I want to do that, and I also want to do that incredibly well. So well, it's great.

Maureen Andersen:

I mean, it's like the advanced. I mean, they, you know, everybody wants to get a letter from OG. I mean, that's you know, part of it. It's like they feel that. So it it kind of makes your audiences really become the characters and your collaborators. I mean, they drive some of this, they're your co-conspirators. And how do you change the emotional stakes for the audience, keep that urgency and agency vital and and and so intrinsic to the experience?

Randy Weiner:

Yeah, I think what's important is there's there, I always say this when you do immersive theater with human beings, it is a dance. It's truly a dance. So you rehearse it, and there's just the performers, but they don't have their partner called the audience. So I think you're just sensitive in the dance. Like, how does a dance stay interesting? It's like you do a subtle thing this way one day, and then your partner reacts subtly in response to that. And that that's really what this is about. So it just even take, I mean, this is gonna answer sort of both the questions. Like when you talk about the giveaways and the OG letters, I don't know if you're saying that because that's something you want in Maureen, or you know, we do that all over the place. So that we give away, oh, yep. So we all I I totally agree. That was the perfect answer because I want it, I know I want it, so we put in the show. But then when we're doing, we're like, you know, these letters, people are holding these letters in their hands. So on stage, you know, they don't have to be, you know, hundred-pound weight, fine stationary. For us, they do, because you're gonna handle that thing. And how does it get interesting? Is is then we're like, oh, actually, we could add another letter here. I don't know, like it's constant for the performers, constant, like, oh my God, when we did that dance step that time, they reacted this way, and that gives me an idea. I want to do, I have two extra minutes. I want to take people over here and do a one-on-one. So it just creates so much energy, you know what I mean, of just exploration and really being alive. And you just never run through your paces. I mean, it's not like a Broadway show. And I thought that was gonna be a thing that would just, I mean, just it's so much energy as a performer to like every time have to react to, you know, what's going on. But actually, it just makes you feel alive. And all these performers, I said this, I feel like I've said this to you guys, but like, you know, the people started and this project and they were all on six-month contracts, and they're all, you know, Broadway credits the star of Lynn Isarables, the star of Hamilton, Dupanero, the star of, you know, Phantom of the Opera. Everyone's star, star, star. And then I thought, okay, they're gonna do this, and they're gonna be like, okay, that was fun. Now I'm out of here. And I was like, oh my God, our second cast is how we're gonna find a second cast. Are they ever gonna be as good as the first cast? They've all signed up to be in the show. They've all signed up again, because I think being that alive, like you know, Maureen, like being that alive just as a human being is a turn-on, as an actor who wants to feel so alive is such a turn-on. And I and I think it's the audiences in your face that sort of bring that on.

Maureen Andersen:

It's up to you. Join the professionals at InTIX 2026, our 47th annual conference and exhibition, January 26th through 29th in Las Vegas, Nevada. Intix isn't just an event, it's your competitive edge. The ticketing and live entertainment industry moves fast. If you miss this, you'll be catching up all year. Early bird registrations are open at intix.org. But wait, if you join Intiks as a member, you will unlock even more conference savings. We'll see you there. Hey Peter, you had a really great question from an audience member.

Peter Yagecic:

Yeah, we have a listener question that uh kind of goes a little bit deeper on what you were talking about a minute ago, Randy, with the letter. Uh, but this was this was about the Sleep No More mask. Uh, this person said, I loved Sleep No More, and I still have my mask hanging in the corner of my office. Can you talk about the value of having a physical memento or keepsake of an amazing immersive experience? Also, has anyone ever stolen a prop from a show to create their own keepsake? Yeah.

Randy Weiner:

Um again, just to speak to my absolute luck or, you know, whatever is making all these things make more sense to you guys as you talk about it than when I was sort of thinking of these things. You know, we worked with Punch Drunk, and um they had done many mask shows. They were the designers and directors and creators of Slip No More. And they never gave their masks out. They would just collect the masks at the end and swab it down with alcohol. But I am a horrible, horrible germophobe. And I was like, no way are we doing that. No way. We're gonna like, we will go figure out a way to source those masks in China, whatever it takes to make those masks semi-reasonably something we can give away. And from that, the greatest marketing idea was born. That wow, people take away the mask. But honestly, that wasn't why I thought to do that. It was really just like, oh God. So I I I love that. I love that people like Damien probably think I'm really a genius marketer. And you know, you discover that people want things, you know, and there's certain things I'm like, okay, these people want these things. We're gonna let these things go. And then the other things, they'll try and take those things too, and then we'll have to honestly nail those things down. You know what I mean? So, so I'm I'm a lot of things are just luck. Like I literally just lucked into it. And because the rules are so nascent, you know, like no one knows how you're like, no one knows. Are you like when when you in sleep number one we said fortune favors the bold? What did that mean? That's what was the line we said to everyone who walked in. It was such a new form, no one knew what that meant. Did that mean you could take things? Did not take things? Are you supposed to grab the performers? I don't know. We're we're kind of relying on some unspoken kind of back and forth. It doesn't even happen in Donkey Show. Um, my wife, Diane, was the director of Donkey Show. Literally, she jokes about this. Donkey Show was a show. We did midsummer night streams set in a nightclub. So it really felt like it was a club. And people would be like, oh my God, that was so brilliant when you did Donkey Show, it was like a club. But when we first did Donkey Show, people would come and sit down on the floor because they didn't know, oh, you're supposed to behave like a club. They were just like, oh, we're here to see a show. They literally would just sit down in the middle of a dance floor and sort of watch the proceedings. And you'd just be like, oh my God. So there's a little bit also of, you know, figuring out and early adopters teaching people what's appropriate and us sort of helping guide that, but also set limits. So when you talk about taking stuff, it's a very dangerous subject for me because I want people to take things, but not too many things, if that makes sense. But yes, we we sort of have to, again, that's a dance. We're figuring out, you know, what are we gonna let them take? And the rest we kind of nail it dashed.

Damian Bazadona:

I love it. Damien, now back to you for the next question. Sure. But by the way, I went to Donkey Show. I didn't know I was going to Donkey Show, and someone said, Meet me there. And I met them there. I was waiting in line, and I have no idea this is an interactive show. And I guess one of the actors and performers used to work the line, right? And say something. He's like, hey, baby, like whatever. I'm like, yo, you got to back up. Meanwhile, I had no idea this is an immersive show, which is just actually ridiculously funny. So I was like, no, then Damien, it's all part of the show. I was like, oh, okay, nice to see you.

Randy Weiner:

Yeah, and can you imagine how many day means there are like that for every show I do? They're like, what is going on here? What am I supposed to do? So it creates all sorts of crazy things happen. And and that becomes the fuel. Like for Maureen, your question of like, oh, that was cool. We never expected someone to act like that.

Damian Bazadona:

So I love it. Uh I was like, next time I should read someone's email because I just actually showed up. Um how do you think about the audience makeup as a central character? We talked a little bit about, we we talked before about how the audience kind of plays a major role. But for any live event, like who you're standing next to is ultimately a huge part of the overall experience. Uh the extreme example, I'll go to the sports world. I'm a Giants fan. And me watching a football game at, I don't know, Eagle Stadium is very much different than watching that same game at NetLife Stadium. So I know the immersive landscape deals with this question a lot about cultivating the audience, like how you're kind of making that. How do you think about that? Just curious.

Randy Weiner:

Um, I think about it absolutely because the audience in my shows to date has always been such a part of the show. So you take Donkey Show historically. Like Donkey Show, the audience was in the show. I mean, they're, you know, by the time they figured out not to sit on the floor, they're dancing around, and that energy is creating the show. So that was quite easy because it was disco music and it was fun, and we figured out how to do a pre-show to warm the audience up, to sort of get them into, you know, one body. That's that kind of a, I almost feel like a Peter Brook term. It's like, how do you take everyone? And I get when you're talking about the, you know, whatever, the Eagles versus the Giants, those guys are like competing. Luckily, we're not competing, so we don't have that high a bar to like make a kumbaya moment between the people of Philadelphia and and New York. But I think to get them in a similar place is really important. Um, so sleep no more, what was the solution for that? That was a mast. You know what I mean? So that then people are coming, they're all dressed kind of different. They're all different heights, different this, different that. But the mask sort of made them uniform because when they start to have too much individuality, unless you're really taking that directly into the experience, like we did in the Donkey show, because we could have someone who's like a freak, wants to dance like crazy, and we had a way to integrate that into the show. Like a great dancer would get up and have moments like that. But then you get to masquerade, and that's where we really dialed up sort of the group experience of it, because we said you have to wear white, black, silver, you need to wear formal wear or cocktail wear. You have to, we're gonna, you either bring your own mask or we're gonna give you a mask. And all the theater people, the traditional theater, are like, that's impossible. You know, this is already a crazy idea. That's idiotic. You're gonna keep your audience away. And I'm like, no, I think that's part of the buy-in. That's part of the fun, is you're gonna look great. You're gonna be going to this ball that the phantom is giving. And um, I think that that's been an incredibly successful part. I mean, I when I get I hadn't been there for a while because I had to do a thing, I had to visit my kids, blah, blah, it was a long story. But then I came back and when I saw all the people dressed up on the street and I go through that show in masquerade, and everyone looks amazing. I was like, this is incredible. Because it just makes them feel like it's like, oh, I don't, you know, it lowers the bar fragmentally of what I have to do because they feel so special, you know, already. And they feel like this is a special night. And it's kind of maybe what theater used to be. You know, I just remember being in my really young days, you'd kind of dress up for the theater, which is such a mind-blowing thought now. And that did something. That it it changed your sort of attitude, your, I don't know if the right words, respect, but your investment certainly in in what you were doing. So I think that's that's one of the ways I deal with that, Damien, is like put, you know, put, I guess, restrictions is how my theater friends were like, this will never work. You know, you're making it harder for them. And I think I'm making it more fun and letting them play along more. And it's so it's a funny, it's a complete 180 um from what any intelligent, you know, I'm doing quotation marks if you're not watching this, intelligent person would do. And I think I make a lot of decisions that aren't intelligent, and that's what makes them so fun, you know.

Damian Bazadona:

It seems as much as a nightlife mindset as it does a theater. This, I mean, this is your career. How you merge those two components of I mean, I teach it for years and in different environments. If you have a country music night versus electronic dance music night, same place, different audience. If those audiences were were crisscrossed and the music was different, the entire experience would be different. They'd go, so it's kind of a yes-end environment where you want people going who want to want to be there, because that creates the entire energy, which is, you know, I guess one-on-one to any. But it's hard. It's hard to actually make it happen. Because like in theory, it's like we want the the customers who are gonna love this the most, but at the same time, when you're marketing and advertising, like doesn't always play doesn't always play out that way. So it's got to be very thoughtful on how it gets put in and uh and how you're positioned. Um, Maureen.

Maureen Andersen:

I have to say, is um when we started today, Damien said he was your favorite fan. I said, I'm I'm your new favorite fan. I'm fascinated by how your brain works. So my question is is like is opening your crystal ball. You've been doing this for over, you know, two decades, and based on what you're seeing now and kind of future casting to where you want to go, what do you see in the next decade? That seems really ridiculously long, but you know, what do you see fandom becoming in how radically different do you think it will be as it evolves? What do you see?

Randy Weiner:

I, you know, I've been doing this so long. I was just doing this on the street, I was doing this in my bedroom, I was doing things in my bathroom, in the bathtub, you know what I mean? Just anything to sort of wake people up to like, wow, you can do this. And oh my God, this is so crazy and so intense and so so personal, so unlike anything I've ever seen before. And that's those are still the words that I want people to use when I when they see what I'm doing. But I think now, you know, again, that word immersive or experiential or, you know, all these words are becoming more and more part of our culture. I mean, maybe it's because, you know, computers and AI and everything is becoming more ascendant and part of our everyday life lives and everywhere on the news, everywhere you turn. And you're just like, oh my God, could I just have uh a sort of human experience in the world? World, I just feel like brands are doing it more. And, you know, restaurants will say I'm an immersive restaurant. I'm like, what does that mean? Every restaurant, I mean, I eat, I go there, I sit there, and I eat the food. But every, every movies, it's immersive. Everyone's using that word. But I do think now what's happening is versus when I'm doing shows like The Donkey Show, or like all these, you know, sleep no more. Now you've got big brands like Phantom of the Opera, who are saying, okay, we want to be part of this movement. It was an incredible, I think, leap of faith for Andrew Lloyd Weber to say, all right, I'm going to give you, you know, the greatest theatrical brand in the history of the world. And now just I want you to do this. And it speaks to again, he's always on the sort of leading edge of these things, as I discussed at the beginning of this. But I see that more and more. Like I just know if you looked in my calendar, like the IPs and companies I'm dealing with and investment companies, like I'm dealing with like bankers all the time now. When it used to be, okay, guys, uh, I'm doing this weird thing. Here's where you get paid. I'll take you out every Sunday to a hamburger. Like literally. You know, and it's just, it's just a completely different level of, you know, talent being accessed and um just interest in in on every level for the most gifted people in the world. I mean, it's just it's extraordinary. So that's what I see, Maureen, is just this getting, you know, bigger and bigger and more IPs and more sensitivity um to what's possible. I mean, and just again, in the spirit of what I answered before, doing things at the best level. You know, again, it's per like what Damien you're asking. Yeah, the things are kind of, you know, not always there might be a great idea, there might be a great performer, but to get everything perfect, I think that's gonna start to happen, you know, more and more, which is exciting.

Maureen Andersen:

Well, then I love the factors is that you know, what I hear from you and gives me great hope for the future of all of this and the world in general, is you know, that human engagement factor that that's not going away. In fact, that's gonna be exploited and and heightened, which I love. And I wanted to ask you, we always ask this is is you know, what are you a fan of? Uh, what lights you up in the world and what it gives you in influence, what influences your creative sparks?

Randy Weiner:

Um you know, left on my own, I think I, you know, Damien hit me with the Giants Eagles thing. I I just love live sports. I think there's something in live sports, just with the fandom, with uh competition. Um and and I think about it all the time, Maureen. I literally I just nerd out being like I grew up and I lived in New York since I was eight, but before then I lived in um Rockville, Maryland. So our favorite team growing up in my generation, Rockville, Maryland, was the Washington Redskins. So I go, wow, what is it to be a Washington fan? It's not the same players. It's not the, you know, like we trade players all the time. They just historically it's not even the same name. That was my point. It's not even the same name. It's not there's nothing the same. And yet, still deep in me, I am a fan of that Washington team, even when they were just called the Washington team. So I'm just so interested. What is that connection? It just it it fascinates me. And like I could sit here and we could do a whole other podcast just talking about what is that? What is it that that's filling for us as you know human beings? Um, it is just so interesting. And and it's something I want to be part of as a fan, but also giving to people. Like that's my to give them something that they really love. And there's there's all these there's all these ideas out there about, you know, do you reach, you know, a million people or do you reach 10,000 people who really love it? I want to reach 10,000 people who really love it. And I think if you really reach 10,000 people who really love it, that actually gives you the best chance of reaching a million people. That's in my sort of worldview. So I think those are the kind of things that interest me. Is like, what are things people just love? Like, why is it like every night before I go to sleep? I don't look at our box office rap. I look at like what's the ESP ed? Do you know what I mean? Like, so it's it's just, it's just, and then to understand that and to deliver that. And God, I wish I was a better athlete, or I wish I knew more about you'll you can ask my kids, they'll be like, oh, daddy wants to, you know, that's what he really wishes he could do. I guess all of us, because I think I lead an incredible life, right? And ridiculous. I get to like do crazy shows, but I think like all of us, there's something else that becomes a kind of a love almost because we didn't do it. Because maybe I live so much in the theater, and I'm like, oh my God, grinding out this contract, or you know, the heater didn't go. Like, it's so mundane and boring, my life. And like I look at sports and I get, I'm like, oh my God, that's so great. And I know they're dealing with all the same crap. The toilet got, you know, flooded on the the you know, the 300 row. You know what I mean? Like, so, but it's it's I can live in the fantasy with that.

Peter Yagecic:

Well, you're speaking to like why we do this series, Randy. I mean, we all we think there's a power in fandom, and I think you just uh talked about it really, really uh concisely, and we're we're trying to unpack it. Um, I want to sneak in one more listener question before I kick it back to Damien to wrap us up. You talked about your amazing uh Broadway caliber cast that has signed on to stay with Masquerade, which is phenomenal. Is is there any specific advice you give performers who may have a more traditional theatrical background uh on ways to be successful in kind of a more immersive space? Is there is there anything you tell them to to kind of lean into it and have fun?

Randy Weiner:

Well, I think actually, I know this cast, we really were rigorous because normally I'd done my shows and I have a sort of a usual cast of characters who, you know, do my nightclubs and will sort of sneak into my shows. And there are people who've already raised their hands and said, I want to do immersive theater. They were already in that kind of experimental avant-garde kind of mindset. And Broadway's an incredible industry with these incredible performers and trained for years. And what they didn't train in was, you know, being an inch away from a superfat and how do you deal with that? And is that something you really want? You know? And we we worked very hard in the um audition process to really communicate to them what this was gonna be like. It's kind of I I also, this is one of the things I'm I'm known for. If I'm interviewing someone for a job, I start out telling them all the worst stuff. Like I go through, this is terrible. I'm gonna be all over you. There's no, I might say this one day, and then the next day it's that because we don't know what we're doing. We're kind of making this up. And if at the end of that incredibly rigorous, you know, process someone says, I still want to do it, then I'm very excited to have them. But I think what's happening now, the fact that we're doing this, um, and these people, these incredible performers are doing this show, I think they're telling their friends. And it means much more, you know, coming from them, you know, how to describe what it what it is to, because I'm not an incredible performer, you know, I'm not Broadway, you know, to but they can explain and be like, this is why I'm continuing to do this. This is what I love about it, this is what's hard about it. Because there's so many things, like anything, there's so many things that are hard about it. So I I would leave it to them to answer your question more specifically, but I do know to get this cast, I did this rigorous project that process that obviously worked.

Damian Bazadona:

Awesome. Damien, you want to wrap us up? Yeah. Um, hey, Randy, thank you for taking the time to do this. Uh, you uh very busy man, uh, and it's just been awesome as as always as expected. Um I'm gonna ask you what I think is probably a hard question. Um you've seen and see a lot of uh live experiences, immersive entertainment, new productions. What do you hope to see less of in the market? Uh and I say that with grace. But you you we see a lot of stuff, and I'm just curious. I could ask you a lot of questions. Like, what do you want to see more of all this stuff? But what would you like to see less of from the industry in terms of maybe some of the experience that are being created?

Randy Weiner:

You know what's so funny? I um I don't think like that. You know, and I and I I think you know this, Damien. That I that's not ever how I think about the world because I only engage with the world that I sort of want to see. I think I'm pretty lucky in that way. So I don't, there's not a lot of stuff I go to, and like, God, I wish there was less of it, because sometimes I'll go and I'm like, well, that wasn't for me, but people love it. So far be it from me to, you know, comment on it. I really engage with the world. I think as I'm saying this, I feel quite lucky that I'm about to say this because it's true, in just what is my journey in it. I just think it's such a amazing. This is really gonna sound kumbaya, so forgive me because no one ever thinks of me like this. But I just think it's amazing. I think that's what I love about living in New York City. There's so many things that, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna elevate it even from just like immersive shows or shows or whatever, to like the entire city. I'm like, that restaurant, I would never want to go there, or you know, that museum, what? You know, like any anything that way they did the park, what? You know, I can criticize every single thing, but that's not at all where I put my energy. I put it more kind of what Maureen was asking me, like, okay, I didn't like that. Oh, that's kind of triggering me. What didn't I like? What, you know, what can I do to actually go the opposite way? And I'm gonna tell you something, Damien. This is the deepest, deepest truth. I actually sometimes am psyched. I'm like, that's great that they're doing these things that I don't like. I'm like, that opens the path more for me to deliver the opposite. Because then when I reach out and touch you in Masquerade, that's gonna be even more mind-blowing.

Damian Bazadona:

I would say here's here's the way I would think about it. I would say I agree completely on your point. Of we worked on probably three to 400 different productions over the years, and there is always an audience for everything. That's the amazing thing about live experiences. What you might like is maybe something I don't like, and I think that's amazing. What I will say that I would say I'd like to see less of is I think about some of the laziness that I would say, where it's where it's chasing more of the buck than investing in experience. And you could, as a I know the audiences like to see it. It makes me happy, but I know when the heart is in the right place. And I think you model this, you put your heart into the investment and it shows an experience. Whether I like it or not, I just like when people invest for the consumer. And that's what I hope to see less of. Um so, Randy, thank you. Uh Peter, you want to take us out?

Peter Yagecic:

Yeah, uh again, I will second it. Randy, thank you so much. That is gonna do it for this episode of Phantom Unpacked. If you liked what you heard today, please check out all the great QA interviews we've done over at fandomunpack.com or by searching Phantom Unpacked and following the series in your podcast player of choice. We'd also love for you to rate and review the show while you're at it. It really helps us grow the show. Our next QA interview will be with Emily Cole from the Savannah Bananas. They have been name-checked. I know they've been name-checked by so many of our guests in the past year. We are thrilled that Emily's going to be joining us next time. So please submit your questions for that conversation over at fandomunpack.com. Until next time, take care and uh have a wonderful week, everyone.