Speaking My Language: A Conversation with Gordon Cox

You know that feeling when you’re watching a live show and realize you’re working harder to understand what's going on than actually enjoying it? That’s the reality for a lot of international audiences when the story is being told in a language they don’t speak, and the “solution” has often been to keep snapping your eyes away from the stage. We wanted to understand which technologies could help address this dilemma, what disrupts performance, and what theaters are really trying to solve when they invest in translation and accessibility.

We’re joined by Gordon Cox, longtime theater journalist and the author of Substack’s best-selling newsletter Jaques (pronounced “JAKE-wheeze”). Gordon has been reporting from theaters around the world, and he shares firsthand takes on supertitles, mobile captioning, subtitle glasses, and translated audio-descriptions. We get specific about what feels magical versus what feels like homework, why subtitle timing is so hard in live performance, and why the most “human” option can also be the most expensive.

Then we zoom out to the bigger theater industry questions: how venues weigh cost, staffing, infrastructure, and Wi-Fi limits; why demand is hard to measure when audiences don’t know these services exist; and what theater marketing and ticketing teams can learn from global markets. We also dig into exportable fandom, including Japan’s anime and manga-driven 2.5D musicals, and why simple moves like an English-language ticketing portal can unlock international tourism and new fans.

If you care about Broadway, global musical theater, accessibility, audience development, or the future of live experiences, this conversation will offer new perspectives and practical ideas. Subscribe to the show, share it with a friend in theater or live events, and leave a review so more curious listeners can find us.

Recorded Thursday, April 30th, 2026
Host: Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation
Guest: Gordon Cox, Journalist & Founder, Jaques
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Founder, A Mind at Work Consulting

https://situationinteractive.com
https://amindatworkconsulting.com
https://gordoncox.substack.com

Transcript

Welcome And Gordon Cox

Peter Yagecic 0:04

You're listening to Fandom Unpacked, the series where we unpack modern fandom with some of the brightest minds in sports and entertainment. I'm producer Peter Yagecic, and our host for today's QA is Situation CEO and founder Damian Bazadona. Our guest today is Gordon Cox, founder and author of Substack's best-selling newsletter, Jaques, spelled J-A-Q-U-E-S, where he highlights theater news from around the world and goes deep with spotlight stories that dig into the biggest questions impacting the global theater industry. You can check out more at Gordon Cox.substack.com. Gordon also covered theater at Variety for over 20 years and hosted the Stagecraft podcast, so no stranger to the mic. Gordon, we're so glad to have you with us. Damian, I officially need a drink of water after that marathon intro. Can you please kick us off?

Zooming Out From Broadway

Damian Bazadona 0:49

Peter, I got it from here. Uh Gordon, thank you for doing this. Um I, you know, I we go way back together, actually. It's true. You spent many years covering the business of Broadway, the business of theater. Um, and now with Jay Quees, which I highly suggest everyone subscribe to. Um you so you've zoomed out. Like I feel like for many years you sort of were focused on sort of, I'd say the Broadway and kind of New York community. You've now significantly zoomed out to a global stage, which I think is a really unique lane in theater coverage. What's changed in your own perspective now? Kind of zooming out, looking at theater as kind of like an international ecosystem instead of just a New York one?

Gordon Cox 1:33

I, you know, I this is in some ways the most obvious answer, but it's just there's so much more out there than uh people, often people in the Broadway industry in particular, which I think a lot of people can get a little sort of blinkered about the and parochial about the business and um what the parameters of success are. You know, you know, success involves a successful Broadway run. There are all these models out there and kinds of shows out there, and all these sort of markets coming um online around the world that uh are doing things differently, you know, because they're brand new and they don't have the traditions and the sort of infrastructure that we have. And so they're sort of figuring, they're figuring out how to meet their own challenges in their own ways. They're the it's it's it feels very exciting to look at these places and look at these people around the world making musicals and just see what they do differently, how they do it differently, why they do it differently. And at a moment when uh the Broadway model in particular is really feeling the crunch in terms of how does anybody make it work these days, uh, I think it's really useful to anyone who's uh kind of you know involved in trying to figure out how all that works to look at what everybody else is doing, just see what's happening. And um, and I think it's it's uh it also sort of re-establishes your faith and joy in theater, at least it does for me. Like I think there's something so gratifying and satisfying and delightful about going places and seeing, you know, theater thrive, particularly musical theater, Broadway style musical theater thrive in places you would never expect.

Why Translation Tech Exists

Damian Bazadona 3:11

Well, I can see that and read it like in your in your Substack. And so you could just get in the tone of the way in which you write and you cover it. You know, one of in your recent Substack posts, which is um which we love, which is how we kind of got to the having you on today, was sort of really talked about the intersection of technology, accessibility. And you started with a really simple fan question in that we're talking saying something to like, I'm sitting in a show in a language I don't speak, how do I follow along? And you know, when you think you covered in that, and I'd love to talk a little, let's dive into that a little bit of the subtitle glasses, audio translation headsets, supertitles. What what what problem, like from what you what you kind of dug into, what problem are theaters actually trying to solve? Is it about accessibility, audience development, tourism? I'm assuming a little bit of all, but I'd love to break that down a little bit.

Gordon Cox 4:06

Yeah, it is a little bit of all of those things. Accessibility is sort of the headline for a lot of these efforts. Supertitles in particular were instituted by opera companies as a way of making the art form more accessible. Like they were hoping, uh, you know, at the time, this was in the um in the 80s, if I remember correctly, the best way to understand what was happening in an opera is to, you know, get a copy of the translated libretto, which is, you know, labor-intensive. Um, and so they were hoping that by making these the equivalent of subtitles, except they're calling them supertitles, because often they're uh projected above the stage, um, that they were hoping that that would be a way to make these stories and therefore this art form more accessible to uh audiences. And it seemed to work and it was very popular. Um and then some of the other technologies that I talk about in the in the piece for my Substack, you know, from kind of audio description, headset audio description to captioning on your phone, um those tended to grow out of initially a push to make theater going more accessible for handicapped communities. You know, a lot of the sort of captioning stuff, the technology that they're using now, that kind of grew out of um, you know, working with uh you know, working with sometimes deaf companies on stage with like Deaf West and some of the Broadway shows, and then just making, making shows more um more accessible to deaf and hard of hearing folks who might want to come to see a show. And the same is true of the audio description stuff that is often can be done through your own headphones, through your, through your uh, you know, mobile device, or in some theaters they have uh dedicated uh devices that you can get from the theater. Um that technology was initiated or it like initially explored because they were interested, people wanted to make their theater, their productions more accessible to people who are blind or who uh have limited vision. And so it was just it was after they started to get these systems up and running and working that it occurred to them, oh, wait, but also there is an opportunity here to open things up for audiences who maybe don't speak uh the language that we're talking in.

Damian Bazadona 6:27

One thing I loved in the post is that um it this isn't just theoretical. You've actually tried these systems in different markets. And so I kind of want to put you on the spot from a fan, from a fan experience standpoint. Yep. Uh, you know, what separated some of the technologies that you use that felt what felt magical versus some that maybe, maybe weren't as magical?

What Supertitles Get Wrong

Audio Translation That Feels Human

Gordon Cox 6:48

Yeah. And uh one of the things I have learned as I have started to go see theater around the world is that I have a clear favorite. I'm I like I've very strong opinions and it just and I'll tell you why. Um the going sort of backwards in terms of my preferred uh my preferred method of getting translations or uh or understanding of what's going on is I I think first of all, the supertitles, which are the most common. They are sort of the cheapest to implement. They are fine, there's nothing wrong with them. Um, you know, they are often uh projected above uh the proscenium. Um, you know, I was at one, I was at a show in Mexico where the super tit the supertitles were projected above the proscenium, but it was like I had to lean my head back like I was looking up at a planetarium to see them. And, you know, the other option is to this I found in a several musicals that I've gone to see in Europe is that the the uh supertitles are projected sort of above like the upper left corner and the upper right corner of the proscenium. And that involves sort of swiveling my head fully and then looking back at the stage to kind of figure out you have to look away a lot, which is hard. I feel like I'm being an annoying distraction to my neighbors. Um, you know, it's just not, it's I I feel like I'm missing stuff on stage when I'm looking away and trying to read something, especially if the dialogue or the lyrics happen to be kind of complicated. Um it's not my favorite. It's uh it's it's a thing that works, and it's not my favorite. The best version is when you can put them on stage uh, you know, in a place where you are more likely to be looking, like that there. I went to see a show in the fall in Latvia, of all places, in which people were speaking a lot of languages, and video, there were giant video screens all over the stage. So it was very easy to incorporate those supertitles. And so it was very easy for everyone to follow along without you know having to like turn your head all over the place and get you know turned around and figure things out. But that's not viable for every show. So um, and then uh and then the I did try, I have tried the soup, the smart glasses, the the subtitle glasses, which um I used in which is a new enough technology that when I first used them in Spain and Madrid a couple of years ago, it was, you know, not the it was not a service provided by a company that specialized in that. It was the producer, who's a very ambitious, uh ambitious guy with a lot of uh with high hopes for the international reach of his shows, um, you know, bought 20 commercially available smart classes. And a guy on his staff who was a programmer and coder figured out the programming to, you know, get the subtitles to play while I was watching this new musical of theirs. And the musical was based on a um, it was based on the Ken Follett novel um Pillars of the Earth, which is extremely complicated. There's so much plot, there are so many people, there's like intrigue, there's like a, you know, there's like a secret love child, like it's a whole thing. And I was really glad that I had all those words there to follow along. But the technology, and I've heard since that the newer iterations of this technology have improved things, but the timing, there there wasn't at the production I saw, they were not able to have a person there, you know, timing the subtitles to what was happening on stage. So they were sort of coded to certain checkpoints throughout the show based on uh, you know, other cues that are called throughout the show, other tech cues, um, which it was fine. But also, as we all know, live shows run longer or shorter uh uh, you know, every night. And so, you know, the the super title, the subtitles that I was seeing on my glasses were almost always slightly off, like a little ahead, a little behind, sometimes very behind, sometimes very ahead. You know, it was like it, it was I was so glad to have it to figure out what was going on, but also it was a constant distraction and uh it did not did not help me to engage with what was happening on stage. Also, they were really uncomfortable. It was a like big, chunky headset thing. And I was really glad I wear corrective vision, just glasses in daily life. Um, and I was really glad that I decided to put my contacts in for that, because if I had tried to wear that those glasses over my glasses now, it would have been even worse. Um, so that's a challenge for uh, you know, for uh making something like that comfortable for a fan wanting to go see a show like that. Um and my favorite of all the devices is the audio description with the uh with the headset. And I did it with a dedicated uh headset that was provided uh to me by the production. Um there are versions of it where you can, you know, get them streamed into your earbud through your phone, through your personal device. Um, and this is not, these are not word-for-word translations. No one's repeating every word of what is being said on stage to you. This is in the version that I experienced, it was at a Dutch musical, and there was an English, you know, a native English speaker who would like very quietly at the beginning of a scene sort of summarize what's happening in that scene. And then, you know, there'd be a twist or a turn or something, or the song would start. And then, you know, she would chime in again very quietly and just let you know what's going on in a very gentle, succinct way, without, you know, going through it line by line, word for word. And I found that it felt the most natural to me in terms of being able to understand what's going on and also to be able to engage with and connect with the work that the actors are doing on stage, the um, you know, the singing they're doing, just everything. It can bet you can be sort of impeded by some of the uh technology when you're concentrating so much on the words, you know, running past your your glasses or like up on the screen. You can sort of forget to pay attention to like, you know, these are live people acting in front of you, and you want to sort of engage with those performers. Um with the with the audio description, um, which is uh is so unobtrusive and yet uh so informative. Like I could I felt like I could really connect with the work that the actors are doing and what was happening on stage. And it was uh it is, I think, by far the uh the most uh satisfying of the experiences. It's also you know the most expensive for a number of reasons. You know, you have to commission the translations and then you have to produce the audio tracks, you know, you have to find the actor who is a native of English, a native speaker of whatever language you're the target language is and you know, go through all that stuff. But I think if people are willing to it is the best of them uh for my money.

Damian Bazadona 13:25

I mean it seems that way. It seems like audio descriptions, even the way you describe it. I mean, the others feel like a little bit of work. You know, they're labor.

The Real Barriers To Adoption

Gordon Cox 13:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's more and it's not it's not as easy as just glancing down to the bottom of a screen and glancing back up again like we do with subtitles. It's just uh, you know, it's it's it's hard. Yeah.

Damian Bazadona 13:43

Yeah. Um what what would you say? What are the biggest implementation hurdles for theaters adopting some of this translation tech? Because I think they see the business opportunity. But I would imagine, as you said, cost, staffing, venue infrastructure. What's the and I know they don't even know if audience is in demand for it, right? So Right.

Gordon Cox 14:01

I cost is part of it, I think. You know, you will see that um the shows that have the most robust, the shows on Broadway in particular, that have the most robust kind of translation services available are the ones that you think would. They're the ones that have been running the longest. They are the ones who are uh playing to a large percentage of international audiences. You know, they are the shows that bring in the global crowds. Um, so it is a it is not something that a lot of shows do initially to start out, because as with most Broadway shows, they you know aim to kind of start locally before they grow nationally and then internationally in terms of their brand awareness. Um part of the idea is the cost of all that and when you decide to implement the cost of all that and when it will be worth it for you to um, you know, to pull the trigger on getting those, getting those services set up. I also think there's a real obstacle in not knowing how what the demand is for something like this, because I think a lot of international audiences aren't aware coming to Broadway, aren't aware that these translation options are out there. I have been writing about Broadway for, you know, decades, and I only became aware of them pretty recently. So it's just, it's just not a thing that is often uh it's it's not in the ether in terms of how you how you think about an international tourist going to Broadway. You know, the Broadway professionals' understanding is that like, oh, the international tourists all go to the musicals because you don't really need to understand English that well to go to go to a musical and to understand what's happening as opposed to going to a play. Whereas I feel like if more international audiences knew that these translation options were out there, and let's say Hugh Jackman is in a play, some big international star is in a play, they might want to go see his play if they can follow along with what's happening.

Damian Bazadona 15:53

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I I I you know I have a a soft spot for the venues, could right, because the technology implementation is complicated. Yes. Costs are complicated, keeping up with it's complicated.

Gordon Cox 16:03

And that's actually Yeah. That's actually one of the the the strength of your Wi-Fi network will ultimately limit how many folks in the audience can be using the service that that uh that allows you to read captions off your phone or get as or get audio description through your phone. Because if the if the Wi-Fi network isn't up to it, you know, you can't. It's not you can't accommodate all 1,400 people in your in your uh audience, for instance.

Damian Bazadona 16:31

It seems like it's it's almost one of those things. I know, Peter, you always talk about the digital endowment or the technology endowment of of a consistent investment. And and I'm sort of in the camp of, I'm in your camp, Gordon, of like more people know about it. It's a little bit of you kind of have to, if you're gonna go in on it, you go in on it and you make that part of kind of the if that's like the the North Star of full accessibility and all the different ways to commit to it, it's it it takes time to actually see the return on that investment. Hey guys, Damien here. I just want to take a quick moment to say if you're enjoying this podcast right now, odds are you're in the business of selling live experiences. And if you don't know my team at the advertising agency situation, you most definitely should. Aside from just being an awesome group of human beings, they're a global team of professionals covering a brand base in sports, arts, theater, culture, museums, or any live experience that requires people coming together. Big, small, all shapes and sizes of brands. You can hit them up at the information below in the show notes. Uh Peter, I know we have a listener question.

Building Fans Around Your Voice

Peter Yagecic 17:40

Yeah, yeah. We we got a couple of listener questions over at fandomunpack.com. And and this one I I chose because uh, you know, this is a podcast about fandom. And and Gordon, with your success with with JQiz and your Substack, um, you know, you've covered theater for more than two decades. This question asker uh asks. Um, do you think of your Substack audience as fans of you and how you see the world? Um, why or why not?

Gordon Cox 18:10

Uh I should. I'm starting to. Um I it does not come naturally to me. I am sort of like an oldie fashioned old man in terms of like, well, I'm just gonna write and sit in the corner and write my little stories. And um, the idea, uh, the kind of particularly of the kind of the idea of like online engagement with fans and social media, it's uh it's a constant challenge for me to feel like I have a have a grasp on. Um, but I am starting to become aware of the fact that that there are people who are reading that most of the people who are reading the newsletter are doing it in part because, in large part because they know me and they are interested in the same things that I am interested in, which is a version of being a fan of me and my work. And so yes, I should be doing that. Um, I would like to be doing more. If this listener or anyone else has uh thoughts or ideas about some sort of engagement stuff that you would like to see from me, I'm all ears because I I would love to do more in that space.

Peter Yagecic 19:11

Well, and I I said this up top, but I'll just lay it in there again, gordoncox.substack.com. Thank you. Thank you for the same. That's the way to do that's the way to do it.

Gordon Cox 19:18

That's the way to do it. Have that conversation.

Damian Bazadona 19:20

Exactly. Damian, back to you. Yeah. So you've covered how global audiences are finding shows through K culture, anime, and just other, I'll call it exportable fandoms. Right. Are there lessons here? Because we have a lot of people for from the ticketing space, the marketing space, the audience development teams that listen to this podcast about how to meet international fans before they arrive at the venue or how to think about them.

Gordon Cox 19:44

Yeah, I think there are. Um, I think one of the one of the things that has that struck me in sort of learning about how certain markets are work around the world is that uh there's a there's a subgenre of Japanese musical that's quite popular in Japan and is growing in popularity around the world that are based on anime and manga and video games. You know, it's they call it 2.5D musicals. And uh they are they are exporting those fan bases, as you said, Damien, you know, they're they're they're wooing these huge global fan bases of anime and manga and and video games into musical theater. And the organization that kind of oversees the collective genre in Japan is working very hard to sort of attract more international audiences because they realize that international tourists coming to Tokyo are doing, many of them are doing so because they fell in love with Japan through, you know, an anime or a manga or something like that. And so they have, it's very simple, but they have an English language uh ticketing portal for folks. And it's it's like the simplest thing to to implement and to get up and going. And yet it makes, I don't know if any of if you or any of your listeners have tried to buy a ticket on a Japanese website that's in Japanese when you do not speak or read any Japanese, it's real hard. And so just opening up that door to English speakers and to folks for whom English is more likely to be one of the second languages that they might, you know, know a little of and be able to navigate, making a purchase better, seems to me like the smartest, canniest, like lowest maintenance version of like opening up the door to these few people just a little wider, just to say, hey, come on in. Um and you know, a lot of those shows then will have supertitles. Those are the most common um translation options right now in in Tokyo for these shows uh as well, just to, you know, to help bring people in and to make them accessible.

What Theater Fans Share Globally

Peter Yagecic 21:46

Well, and I I can attest to the potential for those global fandoms because Gordon, I saw you moderate a panel at South by Southwest in 2025 with the producers and some of the cast from the Sailor Moon uh musical. 2.5D musical that was traveling around the United States at the time. And that room, not only was it packed, but um the fandom was just palpable. As the as the performers walked through in the middle of this conversation, uh, people could not stop asking the performers for selfies. And there just really was uh it was a cool feeling. It was very cool. Um so I I want to ask uh an audience question that kind of relates to that. Um, so you spend a lot of time looking at how theater travels across borders through productions, audiences, and ideas. Is there anything universal that you've observed about what it means to be a theater fan? Um and what is the biggest surprise or surprises you've noticed about non-US fandom?

Gordon Cox 22:46

Um I mean, I think part of the universal is just the love of the live experience and the love of live performance. You know, I just think that there's a real value placed on having someone doing it in front of you and uh the kind of spontaneity that can come from that and the kind of once-in-a-lifetime or once once-ever moment ephemerality of theater. I think everyone really values that. Um and also I think everyone values a collective experience in a way, you know, a communal experience. Uh everybody going is if they are, you know, ongoing fans of going to the theater, they are doing it in part because they're in a room full of like-minded people who all want to enjoy a show or maybe who are already are fans of a show or an actor on stage or something like this, and they are kind of sharing in that enthusiasm. And I think that that sort of translates to, you know, anywhere, anywhere you go. Um see, in terms of in terms of what is kind of unexpected about fan culture around the world, uh one thing first of all, I think there are uh there are markets where the, you know, and folks on Broadway are often bemoaning, oh, you have to be a Hollywood star to be in a to get cast in a Broadway show these days. But I think the casting is even more important in places like Seoul and in Tokyo. And there are these fan bases for these actors that uh that really determine how how successful a show can be. And they are navigating, each market is sort of navigating it differently. You know, a lot of these shows, particularly in Seoul, will cast, you know, three people in the lead role. And so theoretically, you're gonna get the fans of all three of those actors. Some of those people are gonna be fans of more than one of those actors or of the entire show. So they're gonna come back three times to see their favorite performer. You know, they're just engaging with a uh very kind of celebrity talent-focused fan base in a way that's even more sort of intense and connected than what we do here. Um and, you know, I also think there are versions of theater fandom or interest in theater that it uh, you know, I've been told that in Madrid, nobody knows the name of any of the composers of any of the new musicals that happen. And then part that's because the new musical kind of infrastructure is just starting to grow there in Madrid. And part of it's just not part of what they talk about. They don't talk about who composed the music for the never-ending story, the musical. They talk about the show and how realistic that puppet horse was and all that stuff. Do you know? So it's like, it's like their engagement with the musical theater art form isn't hasn't gotten to the point where they're starting to identify the creatives behind the scenes that they are really interested in following.

Peter Yagecic 25:44

I want to ask a quick follow-up question. So for those productions that cast three celebrities in the lead role, uh is it understood internationally as it is on Broadway that if you see, if you don't see the celebrity in the role that you are there, or maybe super excited to see that you're still gonna see a fantastic performance, or is it is it slightly different to kind of guarantee with those kind of fandoms that that person's gonna be in the show that you see?

Gordon Cox 26:14

There, you know, I think it's different for every production and for every star and how intense their fan base is. But I do there is more of a guarantee that you will see the person you have paid to see in uh in a place like Seoul, for instance, like that of that is a thing that I have read about happening is like somebody has to cancel or something and then they have to refund or they have to reschedule or something like that. Because that's who they that's how those folks came came to see. That's interesting.

Peter Yagecic 26:38

Slight slightly different approach to it, I think, than the other. Yeah, yeah.

Gordon Cox 26:42

Yeah. I think there's a there's a they all know what an understudy is, uh, but I just think the the culture has not um has not yet moved to the point where, oh, actually the understudies are also really good, you know. Right.

Peter Yagecic 26:53

It's more like a concert or or yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 26:55

Yeah, yeah. That's right.

What Leaders Miss In Global Markets

Damian Bazadona 26:59

Hey guys, Damian here. If you're listening to this podcast, I'm gonna bet that you're probably thinking about how your team works and adapts right now in this new technology landscape. That's why the one person I always point people to is my co-host, right here, Peter Yagecic, and his company, a Mind at Work Consulting. They run smart, tech-infused workshops that help teams build new skills and actually put ideas into action. Peter is way too humble to brag, but I have no problems bragging for him. So if you're serious about what's next, talk to a Mind at Work Consulting. More in the show notes below. Yeah. So, Gordon, I just want to say, again, thank you so much for spending time with us. Um, I deeply admire your work. And I feel like you've paved a path at looking at the international markets like nobody else has invested in. And I'm in the space, and as I read your column, in a space of that's where a lot of innovation is happening. And it is going to, it's a place to look to how I think that can inform a lot of the US, the North American market and Broadway, just at large. And I don't think it's often seen that way. Which kind of leads me, I guess, to my to my last question is and again, again, you've covered this business for quite a while, but what to what do you think today's theater leaders, and let's talk about, I guess you could say the New York and North American markets. Like, what what are they underestimating about the international markets? Like, are they underestimating the language barriers, purchase friction, the cultural curiosity? Like, what's if you I'd love to hear, what do you think they're underestimating?

Gordon Cox 28:41

I think Well, in part, I think they're underestimating the uh kind of market potential of a lot of these places for their productions. You know, I think there is a version, I think uh particularly as more and more of these markets start to come online and become really robust, there is there is a version of making a successful musical that never plays Broadway at this point, you know? And I think a lot of people don't think about that. And they, you know, they raise money for the big Broadway production, and it is the a risk that sometimes doesn't match what the property is and what it could do around the world. Um, but I think for me, what has been kind of most thrilling about getting to know what's happening all over the world is just looking at the ways in which areas, cities, uh cultures around the world like look at and connect with this thing, the big Broadway musical. Often it's because you know, Phantom came once 20 years ago, really Miserab. And then they take it and they make it, and the people start making their own in ways that are completely unlike how we would do it and informed by traditions that are um, you know, from from local traditions and from their country. And it results in like I saw a number of musicals when I was in Seoul the last time, and they are making musicals about things that we would never think to do. They're just doing it like that w in ways that we never would. They're tech tackling stories that are about vampires. Okay, we have the lost voice now, but like at the time, you know, they're doing vampires, they're doing a like a weird sci-fi dark thing where everybody died at the end. You know, it's like they are their sense of what the genre's potential is and the kinds of stories that it can accommodate is really expansive. And I think that's very exciting. And I also think it's very exciting to look at all the ways that, you know, there's a very um, there's like a thriving original musical market in the Philippines. Like every time I turn around, there's a new musical in the Philippines. And there are people making new musicals there that sound so rich and fascinating and engaged with history. Like there's a version, there's a new musical based, a very popular new musical based on Cyrano, but set in the 40s, right as the Philippines were trying to, were, were trying to break away from the United States. And it sounded so rich and fun and like informed by the music of the time in the region. And it it sounded like the best thing ever. And I immediately wanted to see it, you know, here in the States. So I just think there is a wealth of work out there and a wealth of um kind of artistic traditions being merged and brought together into this sort of Broadway West End style musical that uh can only make the work better and more resonant for us and for folks around the world.

Damian Bazadona 31:28

Well, and also what you said before about the they're not carrying past business practices that define who they are. There, they're it's like an open canvas of curiosity and and building it as they're going, which it just has to be it's so exciting. And it comes through in so many of your columns. Uh, you cover it beautifully because it's it, I I get to look at them kind of go, oh, that's an interesting perspective that we're not reading it. We just wouldn't, unless you're looking for it. Right. Um, I think it was an interesting game. So I thank you very much. Uh, I appreciate you taking the time with us. It's incredible as always. Thank you. It's my pleasure. I love talking about this stuff. Uh Peter, you want to take us out?

Peter Yagecic 32:00

That is gonna do it for this episode of Phandom Unpacked. Thank you, Gordon and Damien. If you liked what you heard today, please check out all the great QA interviews we've done over at fandomunpack.com, or by searching Fandom Unpacked and following the series in your podcast player of choice. We would also love for you to rate and review the show while you're at it. That really helps us to find new fans. We'll be back in your feed in a couple of weeks for the entire Fandom Unpacked team. I'm Peter Yajitic. We will see you next time.